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Post by jay4x4 on Jan 22, 2014 18:09:08 GMT -5
Hey everyone, I've been lurking through numerous forums, from google searches, and finally decided to join since I've noticed that there seems to be activity here. I've done quite a bit of research in mods and think I've got them down but figured ill go over them as their are a few I could not find definite answers to a few from searches. First off I have a 2000 sport limited, A/T, LSD. All that has been done to it is 265/75/16 cooper discover A/T 3s and a cheapie roof basket. I have to say I am very disappointed in aftermarket support, didn't think it would matter as much but really is bothering me now, but really impressed at what it will do stock, I recently went on a little trip with a few buddles (ZJ on 33s and XJ on 31s) and was able to follow them very well except one portion that I did not have enough flew in the front. I wish I had pictures of this trail, it was rough, very rocky with big ledges about 4-5 ft tall and deep ruts, hard to explain really but just looking at it you wouldn't think a stock vehicle would make it.....
Alright first off from my research I read of a way to test my LSD by lifting it up and spinning the wheel by hand etc etc.. well I did the test and maybe the test is incorrect or not but the conclusion is that mine doesn't work....I plan on changing all the fluids very soon, will that help it? if not is it ok to just leave it as is? I have not noticed any drivability issues. Second thing being my steering, I've replaced everything up front, idle arm , pitman arm, tie rods, upper control arms and adjusted the steering box, but when I'm up to speed their is significant amount of play in the wheel, I have to constantly correct it, very fatiguing and doesn't feel very safe past 70. what could it be? lower control arms? didn't seem bad... wheel bearings seem fine when I do the wiggle test on the tire. could my steering box just be going out? I have 230k miles.....It think that sums up the problems ive had, awesome vehicle besides that. (had a high mileage audi that was a nightmare lol)
on to the future mods. 1. ARB Bull Bar- noticed on a thread below me it was discussed and I've found somewhere a thread from google somewhere that you just have to cut the grill to make it fit on a 00+ sport. any clarification on this? seen it discussed many times but have yet to see pics and $900 is a lot of money to spend for something that wont work lol. 2.Skid plate- seen a member on here that has templates for them, plan to pm them for that if still possible. 3.Rock sliders- plan to get those custom built 4.LIFT-There isn't much to discuss here as our options are limited to two kits lol but read that you can put on 2000 Dakota shocks that are 2ins longer that would work...question is what exact trim will work? last time I checked their were quite a few options.. plan is to get ome springs and those shocks...and also do I need to get their torsion bars? can I just crank mine? I've read that theirs are thicker and when you install them you get the lift without changing spring rate (correct term?) 5. OBA- looking at getting the MV-50 I believe its called. 6.CB radio- pretty straight forward
I should note that I already have a hi lift jack, tow strap, snatch strap , tools, flash lights with a bunch of extra batteries, maps, and also carry around two 8gallon tanks of water when I go to the desert (you never know).
I may be forgetting some things but let me know what you guys think and if anyone has any insight on the problems/questions I have any help would be appreciated.
Thanks
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Post by bdmontero on Jan 22, 2014 20:06:26 GMT -5
Welcome!! Pretty good forum here. Ask away we can try and help as much as possible.
Sent from my SM-N900V using proboards
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Post by ES_97Sport on Jan 23, 2014 18:51:11 GMT -5
Hey everyone, I've been lurking through numerous forums, from google searches, and finally decided to join since I've noticed that there seems to be activity here. Welcome! Another good one is the 4x4 Wire Mitsu forum. Between this one and the Wire, if you can't get your questions answered you probably have one of my problems. One of the reasons for lack of support is that no knows what a Montero or Montero Sport are, so Mitsu didn't sell a lot in the US. It really doesn't help that they ARE so capable stock or virtually stock that there's not a lot of demand for major aftermarket parts. The pieces you need to concern yourself with are supplied aftermarket. Torsion bars, rear springs, minor to medium lifts, bull bar (although selection is limited) and t-case gears. Everything else is generic like rock skids, CAT-back, mufflers, air pipes, air filters, tires, rims, etc. Some things can be worked around. There isn't an aftermarket rear bumper with tire carrier. THAT is extremely unfortunate since getting the tire out from under the rear is very important. The only option there if you don't own a '97-'99 with the rear tire carrier is to have a custom bumper built. It's not difficult but it's time consuming which is expensive if you're not doing it yourself. If you have the rear tire carrier, you can get away with installing a wide hitch assembly which will protect the valance somewhat. However its done, that tire has to come out from underneath or you're going to trash the tire and rim on the rocks. I can tell you this. Once you've expended all the options that are available now for the Sport - the next step is a SAS. There isn't any level in the middle. My (now big SAS'd) '97 back in the day with 33" Geolander M/Ts would keep up with almost anything short of a buggy on stuff that'd make you pee your pants. KIM, that it isn't about the mods, it's about the driver. A good driver in a stock Sami will out wheel a bad driver in a $100K buggy. Learn to drive - that's what counts. In case you haven't run across this yet ... www.4x4extremesports.com/. Mine is the black '97 with the spare tire carrier and stock black ARB bull bar and IPFs. I ran my big SAS'd Sport (before the SAS) with nothing but 3.5" of lift from custom rear springs and the torsion bars turned up, RS9000 shocks, Geolandar M/Ts, All-Pro rocks skids, ARB bull bar and a custom front 5/16" T6061 skid plate, stock 5-speed axle gears and the stock t-case gears from '99-'02. No locker - just the LSD in the rear. I wheeled in the CO Rockies in the winter through hip-deep snow all the time and most of the time I was in the lead breaking trail because the modded out Jeeps, Broncos, etc. couldn't make it. Cosport with his '98 and I used to get heckled all the time by everyone on the trails - until we were the only ones that could make it over the obstacles. There is NOTHING that beats taking a barely mod'ed Sport over obstacles that Jeeps with $30,000K of mods can't negotiate. The only things on our Sports that are real limiting off road are the 1.92:1 t-case gears, the approach and departure angles, and the break-over angle. The front wheels really need to be opened up - which you can do by pulling the front plastic fascia and installing a bull bar. There's nothing really to do with the rear except protect it. Even a custom bumper leaves a LOT of overhang. The t-case gears suck pond water. I will NEVER again put up with a crawl ratio that pathetic. I think I did more damage to my Sport being forced to use the 'velocity method' to get over stuff than in any other way. You have a slight advantage since you have an automatic transmission, but bigger tires and the weight of all the added accessories is going to show up the deficiencies in the torque converter and transmission. I think if I were doing this again, my list in order would go like this ... #1 rock skids, #2 skid plate, #3 bumper/winch, #4 t-case gears, #5 lift, #6 tires/rims ... and then everything else. T-case gears are just too important on our heavy vehicles. They also make it safer to wheel since you don't have to bull through stuff. Our vehicles are very top heavy - you don't want to get that weight rocking or it'll just pull it onto its side. That information may still be available from the dealership. No, replacing the gear oil won't fix a bad LSD unit. I don't remember the test anymore as having an LSD or not is only academic to me anymore. However, if you DO NOT have an LSD, they're easy to install. The rear is just like the Ford 9", so all it is is a 3rd member swap. I wouldn't bother. At that point you're better off getting an ARB locker for the rear 3rd member. The LSD isn't going to be enough if you really start wheeling anyway. KIM, you have to compensate for the lack of travel in the front as well as the open diff. The steering shaft - the shaft between the steering column and steering box. Check the column for up and down play, too. If it moves, replace it. And DON'T EVER use the steering wheel to haul yourself in and out of the vehicle. RE: #2 That would be me. I still have one cut-out of 1/4" T6061, too. Let me know if you're interested. Once that's gone, I'm out of the skid plate business. #3 All-Pro in CA sells a really good set for the '93 4-Runner that fit. You need to call them and have them shipped without legs, and then have them installed locally but you can't beat their bars. You can get them in regular or DOM and with or without step plates. The kick-outs come in handy when you learn how to use them. #4 RS9000s are the easiest to fit. Search for RS9000 and follow the instructions to fit the shocks. I just wrote that up a week or so ago. #5 Get a 10lb Powertank or equivalent setup. In the future you can use that for ARB lockers if you decide to install them, but more importantly it allows you to re-seat a bead if pop one or if you have to pop the bead to fix a tire. It'll run power tools and its also a LOT more practical for airing up tires. If you need justification for a Powertank - KIM that its usable all over the place. I blow out plumbing, run air tools, fill mattresses, fill my other and friends vehicle's tires ... the list goes on. A GOOD low pressure 1-30 psi (1-15 psi if you're going with 32/33" tires) tire gauge. Cheap auto store gauges suck below about 20 psi if they even work at all. You'll need this for airing down tires. Also, a good regular tire gauge for street use. #6 Yes, a CB and a good antenna. I like the magnetic mount K40 if you can find one. Having a permanently mounted antenna is just an excuse to have it riped off on an overhanging tree limb. #7 A real battery! A good AGM like Odyssey (Sears DieHard Platinum), the the like. I like the group 65 Platinum. A little bigger than the stock so you'll have to tweek the J bolts and trim the plastic battery/engine heat shield. #8 Winch & winch rope to replace the steel cable. This stuff is invaluable and reduces the weight on the front by a good bit. #9 Manual locking hubs for the front. VERY, VERY important. #10 Steering stabilizer. The RS5000 works well and they have a mount kit that fits our Sports. Couple tree-savers, four 3/4" clevises. Tow strap is useless off road since they have hooks. Pitch it. Get another snatch strap. One of the long 30-40' recovery ropes you can get now, too. They're like snatch straps but not flat and don't stretch - they still have hoops at the ends for clevises. While you're on the clevises, get a couple smaller ones - including a much smaller one. One of each. These aren't for you, they're for the guy that you have to pull out that's blocking the only exit to the road or trail. Not every vehicle has a eye that'll take a 3/4" clevis. I had to haul a Subaru across a flooded stream a few years back and NONE of my stuff was small enough to fit his vehicle. My x ended up taking a clevis off one of her water bottles. That was the only thing small enough to fit through the tie down. Believe me, this happens a lot if you start 'wheeling frequently. Sigh. Tire repair kit like ARB sells. A couple tire bars - they look like crowbars but they're used to pull tires off rims so no hook at one end. These come in handy for all kinds of weird things. You don't need a complete set of tools in your Sport. Figure out what you need out of a set to ACTUALLY work on everything on the trail and pitch everything else out. I have every tool I could possibly need and they all fit in a tool bag. For instance, half a dozen socket sizes will disassemble a whole vehicle. A medium ball peen hammer (like 1.5lb) and a small (like 3lb) sledge hammer). If you can find it anywhere, a coil of heavy bailing wire. Lineman's pliers and a good pair of channel locks. I also carry a MAP propane torch - handy for getting stuck tie-rod ends out of the sleeves and starting soggy camp fires. I have a vise that fits in a Reese hitch but my vehicle has a LOT more miles on it than yours and things like my tie-rod ends have a tendency to freeze into the sleeve. Which is why I carry a 2' pipe wrench. I would recommend a smaller pipe wrench, though. Ratchet tie down straps. I usually keep at least four in my Sport. Not the huge ones, but the ones people use for tying down ATVs to trailers. Get good ones, though, and make sure they're fairly long. The last time I used one, it was to strap the rear axle to the subframe above so I could jack the vehicle high enough to change a rear tire. Another thing that comes in handy for weird stuff. A pack of clean shop rags, roll of shop towels and either waterless hand cleaner or a tub of hand cleaner clothes like they sell at Napa and other auto parts stores. I like the latter although it take up more room. A complete set of factory service manuals either on paper or electronically. I prefer paper since I'd prefer not to grease up my tablet or laptop. A stock of various electrical repair pieces, wire and a striper/crimper. Also a good continuity tester as well as a good multi-meter. I have several different ones but a basic, durable model suitable for testing car electrical is sufficient. My Craftsman is the one that stays in the vehicle with a good selection of probes. Also, a OBD-II code reader. Spare bulbs and fuses for everything. Spare hose and belts. You can buy bulk generic hose for non-formed hoses at the longest length you'd ever need and store that with a spare top & bottom radiator hose. The most important are the radiator and heater hoses. Also a selection of hose clamps. Spare before and after CAT O2 sensors, coil, ignition module. I carry a few other things like a MAP, fuel pump relay, fuel pump ... basic electronics parts that will leave the vehicle immobile if they can't be replaced. KIM, you CAN NOT just hop down to the local Autozone and buy replacement electronics for Mitsus over the counter. If you don't have it there, you'll most likely be waiting for something to be shipped in. I also carry a spare ECM/PCM. That won't do you much good unless you carry a spare immobilizer programed to the spare PCM, though. However, if either of those go out - you're screwed so it might not be a bad idea. One each of front steering parts like a tie-rod end. Whatever you'll need to make it driveable if you bust something in the steering short of the idler arm or steering box. Include the tool(s) needed to press out a tie rod end. If you keep up with your ball joints, idler arm, CVs, steering box - the major parts - you shouldn't have problems on the trail. But, that means that you have to inspect them before every trip and replace anything that looks dubious. Loosing a ball joint or steering component on the trail will probably get you killed. At least one spare U-joint and the tool(s) necessary to replace it. From Mitsu, not aftermarket. The aftermarket ones are crap. Reasonably quick access to a spare alternator if you can actually run off battery power long enough to get off the trail - or a spare in the vehicle. Spare starter solenoid. A full stock of fluids. Engine, brake, transmission, power steering, transfer case and differentials. I carry a 5qt jug of engine oil, enough tranny and t-case fluid to completely fill either. Enough fluid to completely fill one differential. A bottle of brake and power steering fluid. If you're not carrying (a lot of) water, a couple gallons of 50/50 mix antifreeze or a gallon or two of 100% antifreeze if you have access to water. If you'll have access on the trail to water, make sure you have collapsible buckets and a way to filter the water - I mean REALLY filter it, too, not just run it through a tee-shirt or you're going to blow the water pump in short order. Straight water will get you off the trail and back home, but that's it. It has to be changed out ASAP for 50/50 or - again - you're going to lose the water pump. JB weld or equivelent. A couple tubes of gray silicon gasket maker that Mitsu uses for most of their sealing. FelPro sells it everywhere. Copper anti-seize. Tube of copper high-temp silicone and a tube of the black silicone. A roll of electical tape and duct tape. Valvoline or equiv. full synthetic moly HP/HT bearing grease. I keep a grease gun with a full tube in my box. Once you get rock skids, bull bar and rear something-or-other on, you'll be able to use your Hi-Lift. A repair kit for the jack and one of Hi-Lift's big jack bases. The florescent orange polyurethane looking things. Invaluable in the snow and sand/gravel. Several heavy beach towels for throwing down under the vehicle. I have half a dozen old diaper changing pads which really come in handy for padding things inside or laying over the fenders if I have to work in the engine bay or throwing over a hot radiator if I have to work on the front. Goodwill is a good place for this stuff. Dang near everything but the tools will fit in a big cargo box (Wal-Mart), tool bag and existing storage compartments. A formed "plastic" cargo bay mat to keep the floor from getting scrunged up. With you on the water. I have a couple, too. Shovel. I keep a short handled pointed steel shovel (fiberglass handle) in for general usage in the summer and add a short handled aluminum grain shovel if there's going to be snow. Ax and a wet stone. If you're not going into forested areas where you may have a tree down across the trail, a hand ax is sufficient. But, if you're out in the spring in the forests you'll definitely want an actual ax. Or maybe a chain saw. Edward
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Post by jay4x4 on Jan 24, 2014 14:02:36 GMT -5
Thank you both for the welcome!
I must say ive been a fan of your website (97sport) I have it bookmarked on every device that I have internet on. As of right now im kind of wishing I had a 99 or older now although when I first was looking to purchasing I chose the 2000 because the newer look and the engine.
alright so my ill just leave my LSD as is, and my steering wheel has no up and down play or in and out for that matter so im not sure what else to think it is quite frustrating though. I was originally going to get a rear bumper with tire carrier fabbed up, but have decided against it due to price. I plan now to get a tow hitch as I need it as well and going to redesign my roof basket with a tire mount, although ive had it up there before and did not like the weight uptop, thinking that new shocks might help. I have been wheeling my sport stock for about a year now and trying to get as much experience as I can, ive come to the point where Im really going to need to get some better armor going on. How much do you want for that skid plate? do you have any pictures of it? will work on getting those sliders. I may just save up and get the ARB bumper and try to get it to fit. I totally understand the useless Tcase gear we have, I looked on your website and noticed that it says the gear available will not work on my sport (3.5 engine with 4.64). I also noticed that they do not make a rear locker but I can fit a new axle back there. I think I may just go with a front locker when funds permit and wait on the rear.
well with that mess of a paragraph I think covered numbers 1,2, and 3.
#4 (RS9000) I will do a search for your write up, is it on this site? I don't think I saw it but will look again, and will probably go with that option
#5 Ive always dismissed the idea of carrying a tank around but now looking further into it that powertank looks like a awesome idea and surely will invest it. I did not realize how much you can get out of one tank.
#6 Never really looked into a magnetic mount but will check it out although most of the trails I do are desert like with not much trees.
#7 Ahh now this is something I forgot to bring up, I am looking to upgrade my battery but was also interested in a dual battery set up.. any insight on this? im really leaning towards a expedition set up vs hardcore rock crawling.
8,9, and 10 are also on my list thank you for your wise advice.
as for tools I forgot to mention I carry a tarp to lay down or makeshift shelter, a pretty extensive first aid kit( I am in the medical field),tire repair kit, and have ratchet straps, I need to get a axe and shovel as all I have is a entrenching tool for when im in the field hunting/camping. I am working on getting spare parts, what is the bailing wire for? lol
I may have missed a few things but took in A LOT of info and am very thankful for your time and effort in your extremely detailed response. I will look into getting those commonly failed parts to keep on hand.
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Post by ES_97Sport on Jan 27, 2014 15:59:38 GMT -5
Thank you both for the welcome! I must say ive been a fan of your website (97sport) I have it bookmarked on every device that I have internet on. As of right now im kind of wishing I had a 99 or older now although when I first was looking to purchasing I chose the 2000 because the newer look and the engine. Thanks! Yea, I'm somewhat disappointed with the '00+. It's not impossible to modify, but it's always easier to modify a simpler vehicle. Be glad you didn't get an '00+ AWD model. The engine is identical from '97-'05. I've driven almost every year and other than the transmission, I can't tell the difference between, say, a '98 3.0L and a '04. Same for the 3.5L. I actually have the '02 3.5L transplanted into my big '97 and there were only a couple minor changes necessary. I'm not a big rear coil spring fan which is my primary beef with the '00+ models. Carrying capacity sucks pond water and that's a big problem for me. The LSD helps a LITTLE off road in our Sports. Honestly, though, the big problem is the front. No articulation and an open differential is a major PITA. There's not much you can do there about the articulation other than remove the sway bar - which makes a HUGE, HUGE, HUGE difference off road (wouldn't do this on a street vehicle!). I believe ARB now sells a front locker for your model. Be something to check maybe. The BIG difference is going from the open or LSD to a locker in the rear. You can get the rear to crazy articulate and if you can lock the diff it makes up for a very large part of the deficiencies in the front. That's a great thing because installing a locker in the front is going to stress the CVs a lot. There's been a lot of trial and error and research on this for close to a decade and a half and a front locker DOES cause problems. One of the biggest things I learned wheeling the '97s and '98s with open, LSD and locked diff in the rear - if you can't make it without the front diff locked, then you need to turn around 'cause your about to get really, really stuck or break something or both. Remember, articulation is 70% and tires 29% of the equation. If you can keep the tires planted and hooked up, LSD and lockers are useless and unnecessary. My big Sport is locked front and rear, but the lockers are tied together. Flipping the switch locks both. Yes, that's stupid at some level and makes turning dang near impossible - but, it tells you how often I have to use the lockers. Even on the ultra nasty stuff in CO and UT, I use my lockers probably twice a year and mostly that's just because it makes an obstacle safer to traverse, not easier. If you have to compensate for deficiencies - and we do - there are two areas to address. Articulation and tires. I can't stress how important tires are. Everything on your vehicle, every modification is useless baggage in comparison. Talk to racers and you get the same story. In addition to all the knowledge I soaked up over a couple decades with road racing cars and bikes, enduro and MX bikes, a buddy and I spent several years researching and testing tires. There are all kinds of tires for all kinds of applications and you have to find the one that works for your vehicle and application. Given the problems we have to overcome and the fact mine has also always been a DD, I finally settled on the Yoko Geolandar M/T. Its a directional, super sticky, super flexible tire. Slightly less sticky than a TSL but much more flexible. The flexibility means is has good road manners (doesn't ride like a buckboard), but more importantly it means that when you air down, you get a ENORMOUS contact patch that will wrap around anything. Combine that with the soft compound you get insane amounts of traction even on wet slick granite. If you can keep the tire in contact with something, the vehicle is going to move. These are not ultra aggressive tread tires. They're not 'mud' tires, no matter what Yoko says. But, they're light which is a very good thing - we do not have unlimited amounts of torque and HP to throw out trying to move 200 lb tire/rim combinations. They're also not the most puncture proof. The sidewall is only 3 ply so if you have to deal with lots of mud and pointy sticks .... But, for an area without a lot of sticky mud, where its generally dry and there isn't a lot of debris - like CO and UT, they're a very good choice. They also totally rock in the sand and snow. Flotation with these tires is amazing. But, anyway, that's my point. You have to pick a tire that helps make up for deficiencies elsewhere. CoSport with his '98 had no problems keeping up with my SAS'd and locked '97, even though he was running the stock suspension. This is the difference between 'mechanics' and 'engineers'. Mechanics replace or bolt stuff on, engineers look at the broad picture and design everything on a vehicle so that it works together and the pieces complement each other. Its the steering shaft. Its good that there's no play in the steering column, but there are two pieces. The steering column stops just inside the engine bay. There's a shaft that goes from there to the steering box. THAT is your problem. Keep the tire off the roof. Our vehicles are top heavy and another 100 lbs on that high up is NOT what you want off road. I would go so far as to suggest not even putting a basket on the top. It sucks gas on the highway and gets in the way in the trees. Mostly, though, its just the added weight. Believe me, weight adds up FAST on our vehicles. You'll have to check the t-case gears. There are more options available now then there used to be. I'm pretty sure that the 3:1 is available for yours now. No, same for the ARBs. Check, because several new units have come out in the last couple years. For armor: rock skids first. Bashing a rocker panel up into a door sucks. And, you can use the skids to negotiate obstacles. They're not just protection, they're also tools. The kick-out on the All-Pro is awesome! With a little practice you learn to use the kick-out to 'bump' the rear around stuff - which makes up for our sucky turning radius. This is something you can't do with standard - straight - skids which is why I always recommend these. I use the DOM ones on my two '97s for the extra durability. Whatever you do, make sure the legs are welded to 1/4" plate that is then welded to the frame and make sure the legs are DOM. No less than three legs and preferably four. That's where most of the stress is - especially since you'll actually be using them on your Sport. Also, make sure the person that installs them DOES NOT just weld them on in 'one fell swoop'. Weld a inch or two, let it cool, weld an inch or two, let it cool. Welding on a frame is not the same as welding a bumper together. Front skid plate second. The primary worry there is dropping the front differential on a rock. Even a relativley light tap has the tendency to bend the cover flange which will cause a leak. I did it a couple times when I first started wheeling my Sport. If the hit bends the flange enough, you'll end up with no fluid in a few miles. Yea, the rear is kind of a pain. CoSport had Rock Stomper build a custom bumper for the rear and it ran him $600-700 if I remember right. Look into the Toy rear bumpers. Like the skids, if you can get the right dimensions, it may be possible to get one without the 'legs'. That cuts WAY down on the cost. I know All-Pro will do this and I'm sure that there are other manufactures that will, too. Nope, that's on here. Try searching for RS9000, but I just explained to someone just a bit ago how to size shocks. Compressed air tanks? Useless. The Powertank is compressed (liquefied) CO2. Yea, I can go on a tank the entire year with my 35"s. I usually get it filled before our April Moab trip and not until the next April trip. They come up really useful for the strangest things. I actually installed a Quick Air I originally, then got my Powertank when the SAS was done. My compressor system is plumbed with a fill valve so that if the compressor goes out - which is has - I can fill the 2.5 gal storage tank from the Powertank. Lots of guys don't do compressors anymore. In general - they're a flaming PITA. They take a lot of space in an engine bay that's too small for everything one wants to do. They're electrical which means stuff wears out, shorts out, etc. And when you have air lockers, no air means no lockers. Also, you can't switch your compressor to another vehicle for a day or week or whatever. I've wheeled all three of my Sports, but my big Sport is my primary. I don't want to install a air system in my '03 'cause that's not and never will be even a part time 'wheeling vehicle. The nicest setup is the full pneumatic setup. No electricity at all. My plan for my little '97 is to install the Powertank, a 2.5 gal storage tank so that the Powertank can be removed without affecting the lockers, or if I forget to fill my Powertank (yea, like that never happens since the last time ) the storage tank can be independently pressurized from another source. Totally understand. My Sports are more 'expedition vehicles' than crawlers no matter how they look. I would love to have a dual battery setup, but there isn't enough room in the engine bay with a compressor and FIPK kit. As you have ABS, I expect that's the same for you. I also don't really want to add another 80 lbs to the front. That's why I run the group 65 AGM. I'm going to experiment with solar probably this summer. Since I don't have even a stock rack anymore, I'm looking at the solar sheets and having them permanently attached to the roof. There should be enough room for close to 300 watts. A good controller coupled with my group 65 would take care of me, I think. I do strongly suggest getting a volt meter for your battery for the dash. With one battery, and a lot of accessories that's something you want to keep track of. Yep, tarp is always good. An extensive first aid kit is always a must. My X was in medical so she helped stock mine. That thing is insane now. LOL! You have NO IDEA how many things bailing wire can fix. I've had a couple instances where stuff has come loose - broke off is more accurate - and the only way to reattach whatever was to wire it back on. Knocked out the front of a plastic inner fender skirt on Golden Spike and had to wire it back in. Stupid things on the undercarriage like a plastic fuel line bracket and fuel filter that came loose. Handy stuff!!! I had an entrenching tool for years in addition to my shovel and finally took it out. Seems like it was always too small and just took up space inside - where it always seemed too big. Oh, liquid electrical tape. Which is a MUCH better solution for off road vehicles than regular electrical tape. Always. I still come up with stuff after years and years. Like the hitch vise, propane torch and pipe wrench that are now in my Sport after breaking a drag link joint west of town last summer. ARG!!! How do tie rod ends manage to weld themselves into the tube when you slather them with anti-seize and its a sealed unit?! ?? Took me THREE DAYS to get my Sport back home. Grrrr!!!! I'll hunt up the skid plate stuff. I was thinking about this over the weekend. What would probably be more practical and cheaper is for me to CAD up the plate and dump that to a PDF. It's not anything special. The company that I get my aluminum from has a shear and bender. It used to cost me about $40 for the sheet and $10 for the 15 degree bend. Most scrap aluminum places are outfitted the same. Might be something to look at in your area. Except for cutting and bending the plate, everything else requires basic hand tools and a handful of metric bolts, nuts and washers. Found it ... shocksEdward
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Post by jay4x4 on Feb 5, 2014 17:25:23 GMT -5
Wow sorry for late reply, very busy week.
Ya I must say I am glad I didn't get the AWD version. That was one thing came across as pretty clear to stay away from if I wanted to do anything with it. For the rear end I'm going to have to check into that locker idea maybe things have changed, hope this holds true for the transfer gears as well, I would love to lock the rear as I think that would be sufficient, totally agree with you statement about if you cant get through a obstacle without front being locked, As for tires I do have a brand new set of 265/75/16 Cooper Discoverer A/T3s which although not as aggressive as I would like, they are a nice tire that doesn't technically comprise much, I will have to look into those geolander m/ts though, never been fan of their A/Ts.
Steering shaft....argh yes seems like that could be it, would this be also called a intermediate shaft? after replacing that will I need a alignment? or wild I just need to keep the wheel centered?
Spare I guess I may stick to the plan to getting a custom bumper fabbed up. I did notice it before that the vehicle sways with it on top but wasn't sure if this is something new HD shocks could help stabilize.
Skids and rockers Yes if you could do a PDF that would be awesome or even post it in the FAQ area lol. Does the skid plate cover the front diff to the bottom of the radiator? do I need to worry so much about transfer case and fuel tank skid plates? if I do, they seem relatively easy as I could just use a straight piece of metal. rock sliders lol I think im going to fork out the money for those specific ones, I have noticed a few times where if I had some it could have made things way easier especially as you have mentioned to kind of pivot myself or even just let it get banged or rubbed so I can keep traction in the situations ive had.
Battery set up
lol yes I did notice their wasn't very much room up front, I had an idea of having one relocated to the rear, but now that I think about it I think I could get away with a high quality battery as I really should classify myself as a prepper in some sort since Im sure I will never be able to do a full self supporting expedition. I just wheel, camp, hike, and hunt but always like to be prepared.
Tools LOL oh that makes total sense, how did I not think of that...liquid electrical tape ahhh yes ive seen that before and always thought to myself to pick some up then I totally forgot till you mentioned it. I really need to gather to rest of the items. I can only imagine how difficult it must be to change out a tie rod out in the bush....shoot ive had a hell of a time doing it in the garage. I must applaud you as reading though this section it is quite clear that the things you advise to keep on board are of great value and you have experienced a situation to prove it lol.
Shocks Thank you. don't know how I missed that.
Alright quick recap since I'm a terrible writer (I'm sure you can tell) I'm used to writing down quick notes and charts, and have a terrible time writing my reports.
Recently I haven't had much time to really go out and wheel and don't see it changing anytime soon I think I may just replace my shocks for now and hold off on the lift as of right now if I had decent shocks and good protection I can do quite a bit
1.Steering shaft 2.new shocks- no lift 3.Battery 4.skid plate 5.Expand Tool and recovery equipment 6.rock sliders
probably leave out locker and gear out for a while since I wont be doing that many difficult trail that often or soon for that matter. The first 3 in the list I guess would be considered maintenance.
ahh yes one last thing before I cut this off... do you use special brake pads? I'm assuming I may need a better set than if I had lower gears and a manual as I could put it in 4LO and 1st gear and let it crawl down a hill, but any suggestion is appreciated.
Thanks
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Post by ES_97Sport on Feb 10, 2014 18:41:28 GMT -5
Wow sorry for late reply, very busy week. Hear that. This is our busy time of year and it's been nutty. Yep. About all you can do is swap the t-case for the non-AWD version - which may or may not even be possible - and pray you never need to touch the transmission. Mark's t-case gearsKeep in mind that even if the t-case you have isn't covered - which I doubt - there are options. Depends on how much you want to do and how much you want to spend. Depending on your transmission, its possible to transplant the NP231 Jeep t-case and get 2.72 stock or 4:1 from Terra. This may be a bit much, IMHO, but gives you drive shafts with no slip yokes - a VERY good thing - and parts availability at your local 7-Eleven. I have an NP231 with the Terra 4:1 + Duffy's NP231 doubler w/ 2.72:1 in a 6000lb vehicle and I've never had even a hic-cup out of them. Not having to deal with slip yokes and having generic drive shafts makes up for a lot of the hassle in the long run. 2.72 isn't awesome, but it's a lot better than 1.92. Its probably possible to transplant an earlier Mitsu t-case, too. Yep. Front and rear are the ultimate, but after wheeling Sports for 15 years, I just can't justify doing the front. Too many people have wheeled with me in my big Sport over the exact same terrain with no problems and no front locker. I've kept up with Lloyd and all that he went through over the years with the Monteros ... too much stress on too many things. The only time having both really comes in useful is when you're down to having traction only on one front and one rear and that's very, very rare. The biggest problem with our vehicles that comes into play when off road is ground clearance. We have a built in limit to what we can do. You may need both ends locked, but then the question becomes what happens when you get the front over? I HAVE run into places where the rocks were 2-3'+ in diameter and weren't anchored so I needed the front to claw up the rocks, but once you do get going there's no way a non-SAS'd Sport has the ground clearance in the middle to not hang up or rip something out/off. CoSport in his '98 and I did Iron Chest here in CO several years ago - terrain is just like that. He was running 35" Goodyears with the maximum lift possible on our Sports and without front OR rear lockers, he still had no problems keeping up with me. (tells you something about articulation and tires) The Geolandar A/T+ isn't technically speaking an 'off road' tire. They're aggressive, sticky (not as much as the M/T, though) and have excellent flotation. The most important feature is they self-evacuate better than any other A/T I've seen. Which makes them very good in snow and mud. I've taken both my little '97 and '03 out to Moab wheeling and both did just as well out there as my big '97 with the M/Ts. I was especially impressed with them in the deep sand. Figured I'd have problems with them there, for sure. The M/Ts are really good tires, but they're REALLY sticky - which means they're really soft. Especially on the slick rock in Moab these tires are impressive. The flotation still impresses me even after having run them for so long. Excellent snow-wheeling tires and they're not so aggressive that they tend to dig in rather than move you forward. KIM, though, that they are REALLY soft! I get about 13 months out of a set which includes DDing and wheeling here in CO and a couple trips to Moab. This is a couple months more than anyone I know running TSLs, at least. Mileage-wise, I'd guess I get around 25-28K. That should be a little better on a little lighter vehicle that doesn't see heavy wheeling. I THINK that's called the intermediate shaft. Everyone I know just calls it the steering shaft. Nope. It has nothing to do with the alignment. Yes, when you install the new one, make sure you have everything centered. Wait 'till you pull the rear sway bar off, lift it up and start adding weight if you think it 'sways' a little now. Sports are built like tanks, but that's also a big drawback off road. Standard or 'HD' non-adjustable shocks won't help. Shocks are not springs and shock manufactures know this so the shocks are valved to do their job - which is not controlling the body. On top of this, they're usually valved soft to give a 'comfortable' ride. To help with your problem you need adjustable shocks and then you need to play with the valving. I used to use 4 and 3 with the RS9000s ('stiffer' setting on the front axle because of the extra engine weight). This was an ok band-aid on the street for a vehicle without a rear swaybar and 33"s. You have to kinda play with the settings on your vehicle - which is why you need adjustable shocks. On the trail I'd turn them all the way down to their softest setting so the vehicle would articulate. This works very well, but you have to be REALLY careful because this is almost like having no shocks at all and once that body starts moving there's almost no control between the suspension and body which makes it easy for the body to pull the entire vehicle over on its side. Takes some getting used to and practice but its worth it. Take a look at All Pro's Toy web site. Were I going to do this, I'd get the measurements from a couple different generation 4-Runners. You only really need the width for some rear bumpers. If you can find a gen that matches our width, it's not that hard even to cut the 'legs' off and have new ones made and welded on. Really basic tube style carriers like CoSport's are not that expensive. Have you thought of doing one yourself? These things are not brain surgery. Lots and lots of info on Pirate if you want to go that route. 1.5", 1.75" and 2" 80 wall are what most of the tube setups are done out of. Yea, I'll get that done up this weekend. The skid plate runs from the back of the front cross-member (under the engine) to where the bottom skid plate stops in the front. It leaves the heavy skid plate right below the radiator in place. That one is plenty heavy enough so there was never any reason to mess with it. There is a huge vibration damper dangling off the rear of the t-case. Its a big U shaped bracket with a big block on the bottom. Take it off before you go off road!!!! That thing won't bend and it won't break so if you whack it with a big rock it's going to transmit all that force into the t-case, transmission housing and mounts. I'm 99% sure that whacking that thing over the years is what lead to breaking the spacer housing between my transmission and t-case a couple years ago out in Moab. At least one other person had the same thing happen and we kinda came to the same conclusion. I can't figure out what it's actually for - dealer techs said vibration - but I've never noticed any difference on or off. And, it weights like 10 lbs so .... Mmmmm. The t-case is pretty well tucked so unless you're doing a lot of rocks, it should be ok. Just make sure you keep track of what you're driving over. The gas tank needs a skid plate. It already has one that does an ok job - in other words, you won't puncture the tank. The bad part is that if you DO start using it, it'll scrape up crud which gets stuck between the tank and skid and will eventually wear through the tank. And, yes, I've had to replace the tank because of that. The good part is that because of the design, it's dirt simple to make a replacement bottom plate out of 1/4" T6061. I have a place here that has a laser cutting bench and will accept CAD or a diagram on a napkin and cut aluminum or steel cheaply. A tank bottom is about $40 + materials. A little extra if you supply them with a napkin. Get yourself a copy of Solid Edge 2D CAD and learn to use it and you can dump AutoCAD files that anyone with a CAD/CAM device can read - which fixes the napkin part. Getting someone to weld it together - what little welding might be required - is easy. Most any auto related shop that does any custom stuff at all will be happy for a few bucks to spend 20 minutes welding. Just make SURE you tell them what kind of metal (like T6061) they're going to weld - 'cause it does make a difference. Anyway, someone that can do laser cutting is an invaluable resource. Once you get passably decent with a CAD program, a ruler and a half way decent Harbor Freight micrometer you can get really creative. Bolt holes can be pre-cut. You can have cut-outs cut for weight savings, access, whatever. And once you have the diagram, if you don't like version 1.0, it's really easy to make changes and have them turn out something different. Another good thing is during production you can have them turn out 2 just as cheaply as 1 with just the cost of the extra materials - no extra labor costs for the second, third, etc. The rear drive shaft is reasonably protected forward of the rear cross member. The rear could use something in the area of the U-joint. I never checked into this since about the time I was fed up with trashing rear u-joints I had the SAS done. Amazing how much difference going from a 33" to a 35" makes in clearing things. I'd look into the Ford 9" u-joint protector or something similar. A full skid w/ rear protection probably isn't necessary. That depends on whether you have a tendency to back into things. I personally don't like the full skids since they suck up yet more clearance that we don't have but something to protect the diff yoke and u-joint would a good idea. This is one of those things that actually will pay for itself in pretty short order. Mitsu u-joints are not cheap. Otherwise, the only other stuff under the vehicle is the CAT and muffler. Nothing you can do with the CAT, but replacing the muffler with something like a Flowmaster will help a ton there. Yea, it took a little while to figure out the kick-out but once I learned to use it, it was invaluable. We have a lot of trails here in CO that are basically off camber switch back trenches with roots, trunks and rocks sticking out the sides. Also a lot of really narrow curvy trails with big boulders sticking out or in or just alongside the trail. The turning radius on our vehicle sucks pond water. GRR!!!! Learning that bump move with the skids made getting around a lot of corners really easy. Like I said, though, make sure you get them mounted correctly. 1/4" plate the width the frame is high and have the legs welded to those - so a 6-8" square - and make sure the plate is welded all the way around. Don't let them cheap out and only do the sides and bottom. Someone did a dual in a Sport. Can't remember who it was and this was quite a while ago. I believe they used a really small battery in place of the air box. Never saw pics. Knowing how much room I have without ABS - I can't imagine how you'd get that to work without getting REALLY creative. The extra weight on the front would suck. I don't know if you've noticed this off road yet, but with the limited articulation in the front of our Sports they have a tendency to get tippy when you get into an off camber nose down situation. For example, if you're heading down hill off camber to the passenger side and the passenger side front tire drops it tends to lift the rear driver side tire off the ground. Because there isn't enough articulation in the front to allow just the wheel to drop, the entire nose tries to pull the vehicle down and over to the passenger side - which BTW, will flip it on its side. Having more weight in the nose would just make this worse. It wouldn't be hard to do a remote in the rear if you have space. I pack the rear from floor to ceiling with gear and barely have enough room as it is, so anything else in the back is totally out for me. I think the group 65 would probably be fine for you, too. My biggest worry - and everyone in my family since I was a toddler - is getting out somewhere and having the battery run down and not be able to start the vehicle. I don't run anything off battery when I'm out, but you never know .... I'd settle for an alternative way to charge the battery which is why I was looking at solar. There are lots of 30-40-50-60+ watt setups that take up minimal space and all you need is a controller. I thought a roof solution for me because I'm just out of space inside. You'd be surprised. I've done a full wheeling/camping week in UT in the summer self-contained and a week and a half with two kids and a wife with only one stop for cooler restocking and water fill up. You have to be creative when it comes to packing and gear. Pretend you're outfitting for a backpacking trip. Think small and light. Miniaturize everything. There's a LOT of space in our Sports but you have to learn to use it efficiently. Oh, and stay away from ROUND. Round stuff wastes more space than you can imagine. Yep, picked up another can last week. Love that stuff. Especially good if you have to deal with a state that uses de-icer. Oh, NORMALLY it's really easy. In fact I'd rather do a tie-rod than a u-joint. Normally. Lots of liquid wrench - which I carry a big can of - and a propane torch help a LOT! And in my case, a vise and big pipe wrench. Sigh. Can't remember if I mentioned a ball joint and tie rod end fork(s). BTW, the air hammer ones are much smaller which saves on storage. Yes, using them with a hammer will mushroom the ends but, that's not a big worry since these are emergency tools and shouldn't be used for general maintenance anyway. Thanks! Yea, unfortunately, a lot is 'been there, done that'. Either on my own or with my family. My family are all outdoors nuts. Not the normal outdoors nuts, but the 'the middle of nowhere' isn't nearly far enough nuts. But, they're very self sufficient nuts and made sure they involved their kids and passed on what they knew. If I can keep someone and their family from getting stuck in a life threatening situation its worth trying to pass this stuff on. BTW, did you check the steering box play? I can't remember. There's only supposed to be about 1" when the vehicle is turned off. Odds are incredibly good that the box has NEVER been adjusted. I'd do that first, before replacing the shaft. Also, since you're already wheeled it a bit, now is a very good time to do that. Also, don't forget a steering stabilizer. I do use different pads on my big Sport, but I also use different rotors. I run the Hawk green pads with Powerslot rotors. However, I never ran anything but the stock factory pads on anything and never had a problem. Neither did CoSport even when he was running the 35"s. However, that was with the stock t-case gears, but I've not run across anyone with problems with the lower t-case gears, either. I know 3:1 SOUNDS like a lot of gear, but behind a 3.0L ... its not. If you were going to run 11:1 with 4.90s on an auto THEN I'd expect you to have problems, but .... If you REALLY want to, I think Powerslot makes Mitsu rotors for our Sports and Hawk does make pads. But, I wouldn't put it high on my priority list. Just a mention, the Hawk pads behave a little different than the stock pads, which is what most people complain about. I really like them but it depends on how you drive. I really don't like the stock setups on my '97 and '03 anymore. I think I'm spoiled now. Anytime! Edward
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Post by ES_97Sport on Feb 18, 2014 14:00:35 GMT -5
Almost forgot to mention this again. Pull the rims as far out as you can while still being able to tuck the wheels into the wheel wells. This will increase stability both on and off road. Sports have a very narrow wheel base for such a heavy vehicle. I know an one or two inches wider doesn't sound like much, but it makes a HUGE difference. When I had the SAS done on my big Sport, I had the axle width increased by 1.5" specifically to counteract (somewhat) the massive increase in height. I pulled that another .75" a rim when I switched to my new steel rims a couple years ago. Amazing that such a little change could make such a difference - even my regular passengers could tell the difference. There is a reason why crawler Toys and Jeeps use full size axles. Get some heavy duty steel rims. And, I don't mean the pretend wannabe 'heavy duty' rims from your local tire store. Stockton Wheel makes some good rims and they'll custom built them to your spec. They may not be 'pretty', but that's not the point. The point is to get you there and back safely. I loved the stock '97-99 8" aluminum rims, but if you accidentally knock a chunk out you are screwed. With 31-32" tires on a 15" or 16" rim that's not that hard to do. You don't have much sidewall so the rim is exposed to damage from rocks (curbs) and such. Don't run the widest tire you can possibly find nor the widest rim you can get. Yes, they recommend a 9-10" rim for a 10.5-12.5" wide tire, but that doesn't mean that's what you MUST run. A little trick is to run a wider tire on a little narrower rim. The point is that the sidewall bulge protects the bead area of the rim. It also makes it less likely you'll pop a bead when aired down. Edward
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Post by jay4x4 on Feb 22, 2014 12:55:44 GMT -5
Late reply again lol
T-case gears wow I'll have to check those gears out!
I must say I have noticed ground clearance seems to be limited, ive also noticed that with same size tires other vehicles seem to have a better breakover angle? a Tacoma for example may have smaller tires but the area right under the cab between the tires seem to be substantially higher than my Montero, but diffs seems to be about the same. what I don't understand is how people say a full size Montero on 35s are extremely capable but a Montero sports on 33s aren't, wouldn't the different be negligible considering that the full size Montero is longer? in all honestly I've contemplated about scrapping the idea and starting with a new canvas but ill admit that your sport is the only thing inspiring me to keep going(does a great job doing it too).
so since I going this route so far my plans are
for the skid plate ill probably get a quote on the cad file when I can, as for the bumpers and sliders ill go with the all pro and get custom bumpers fabbed up as ive seen a few decent shops around here (so cal is filled with shops) mostly prerunner stuff though.
Brakes will just be stock replacement. I guess ill go with the ome springs and bars since it seems my drivers side is sagging to one side shocks- possibly adjustable ranchos power tank. t case gears. new wheels and tires when needed.
probably not in that order but I think that should be decent enough. it probably will take more time than id like seeing as im having other maintenance items to take care of.
as for the steering shaft, the box is tightened all the way, it wont go anymore, actually after looking at it, could it possibly be the box? the wheel can rock back and forth (like turning when driving) a good 3 or more inches each way with vehicle off. but the actually wheel has no play side to side or up or down if you were trying to shake the wheel.
Thank you for taking the time to answer my numerous questions.
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Post by mudrunner on Feb 22, 2014 23:12:58 GMT -5
The reason why most people say the Montero is always mentioned is because most people run them over the sports. If you want info about what the Sport can do find some Aussie forums that cover the Challenger or L200 triton. Which are about vehicles.
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Post by jay4x4 on Feb 23, 2014 13:02:32 GMT -5
The reason why most people say the Montero is always mentioned is because most people run them over the sports. If you want info about what the Sport can do find some Aussie forums that cover the Challenger or L200 triton. Which are about vehicles. oh yes ive ran exchanged a few emails with denwhitewolf form youtube. very nice Montero sport, also I guess other things keeping me going is, I don't particularly see any difference between the sports and say FJ, Xterras , and 4runners besides after market parts. they all seem to have IFS/SRA except the sport seems to be a lot beefier. Would it be safe to say that the sport is the same besides limited after market support and lift?
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Post by bdmontero on Feb 23, 2014 14:24:22 GMT -5
For one the sport has a fully boxed frame. From front to back. Also it seems that a lot of work went into it. Mine has a 190000 on it and it drives fine still. I'm sure other people will chime in and add some other things
Sent from my SM-N900V using proboards
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Post by mudrunner on Feb 23, 2014 14:39:33 GMT -5
The reason why most people say the Montero is always mentioned is because most people run them over the sports. If you want info about what the Sport can do find some Aussie forums that cover the Challenger or L200 triton. Which are about vehicles. oh yes ive ran exchanged a few emails with denwhitewolf form youtube. very nice Montero sport, also I guess other things keeping me going is, I don't particularly see any difference between the sports and say FJ, Xterras , and 4runners besides after market parts. they all seem to have IFS/SRA except the sport seems to be a lot beefier. Would it be safe to say that the sport is the same besides limited after market support and lift? Also to be quite honest one of the reasons I went with the Mitsubishi over the other brands was the 5k towing/hauling capacity factory over the maybe 3k from the other manufactures. Also gas mileage is higher and better power from what I have seen in the other vehicles. I can say that from my experience, I love hitting the pedal in my sport at 90 MPH and still finding more speed to pass semis fully loaded with camping gear and the family.
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Post by mudrunner on Feb 23, 2014 14:41:52 GMT -5
Lift is also done with companies like Ironman4x4 and Old Man Emu. I have heard of a company here in AZ called Sierra Expeditions has helped a number of Montero owners get the lift kits and ARB Bumpers here in the states as well.
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Post by jay4x4 on Feb 24, 2014 11:36:19 GMT -5
Interesting, did not know the other brands had lower towering capacity. I'm very surprised by this vehicle having 230k on it and runs without a hiccup, gas mileage and power seem to be down though (3.5l). I'm actually prepping to do a Mojave run. Not a hard run but very remote and a break down would be serious. Sierra expeditions? I think I've ran into them before, so are you saying they can import more parts for us that are usually only in the Australia?
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