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Post by r0llinlacs on Jul 1, 2015 16:17:34 GMT -5
ABS has been acting up lately. Nothing detrimental but I'm worried something may be about to give in.
Sometimes (usually when I first start driving from a cold start) during braking, the ABS will kick on when it doesn't need to. When (if) it keeps doing it, the ABS light will come on and it stops doing it.
Also, sometimes on a cold start, the ABS light will stay on after the car is started. What's funny about this is that if I turn the car off, and re-start it, the light goes out every time.
Anybody have any clue why it may be doing this? I'm just worried that if the ABS goes out, I won't be able to use the rear diff locker, but the diff locker disengages ABS anyways, so am I worrying over nothing? I'm just worried it won't be able to communicate with the ABS and may disable the locker.
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Post by jkdv8 on Jul 1, 2015 16:27:17 GMT -5
Check the wheel speed sensors for damage or dirt. Also check the ring for broken missing teeth or clogged teeth. If it's something more sinister you would need to have the code pulled.
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Post by r0llinlacs on Jul 1, 2015 16:31:17 GMT -5
Well, I'm having trouble with the VSS on the transmission. It went out, I replaced it, it worked for a whole 10 minutes and stopped working again.
Could it be related to the VSS? I would assume the VSS and wheel speed sensors talk to eachother?
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Post by jkdv8 on Jul 1, 2015 17:03:15 GMT -5
Yes, that's probably the culprit. I'm sure the abs computer uses it as a base to go by. The multimode can throw fits to if it is confused what type of surface is it on but you usually get the 4wd light with that. Send that sensor back if you can and try to find a dealer spec one.
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Post by r0llinlacs on Jul 15, 2015 21:45:47 GMT -5
I'll have to check it with a scanner then. I haven't scanned it since I replaced the VSS so we'll see. I just don't feel like spending $50 to make my speedometer work, but I did waste $15 on the cheap one so I might as well buy it once and be done, assuming it's not a wiring problem. In the meantime I've been using a GPS speedometer app that actually works really well so it's holding me back from fixing it, lol. But if it causes problems with the ABS I need to fix it.
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Post by ES_97Sport on Jul 16, 2015 14:01:44 GMT -5
Well, I'm having trouble with the VSS on the transmission. It went out, I replaced it, it worked for a whole 10 minutes and stopped working again. Could it be related to the VSS? I would assume the VSS and wheel speed sensors talk to eachother? TCM, ABS and Cruise use the signal from the VSS. I don't have anything directly documenting other interaction(s) in the FSMs but the impression I get from the manuals as well as driving is that there is some other interaction there in the ECM/PCM, too. I do know that when the speedo on mine quits working, driveability changes, so .... Never had it on the scanner when its happened so I don't know what's really happening. Are you SURE the VSS is failing? That's an electrical/mechanical unit. All it does is convert the rotation of the shaft into magnetic pulses. There's dang near nothing there to fail. Edward |
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Post by r0llinlacs on Jul 16, 2015 14:36:22 GMT -5
Well, I'm having trouble with the VSS on the transmission. It went out, I replaced it, it worked for a whole 10 minutes and stopped working again. Could it be related to the VSS? I would assume the VSS and wheel speed sensors talk to eachother? TCM, ABS and Cruise use the signal from the VSS. I don't have anything directly documenting other interaction(s) in the FSMs but the impression I get from the manuals as well as driving is that there is some other interaction there in the ECM/PCM, too. I do know that when the speedo on mine quits working, driveability changes, so .... Never had it on the scanner when its happened so I don't know what's really happening. Are you SURE the VSS is failing? That's an electrical/mechanical unit. All it does is convert the rotation of the shaft into magnetic pulses. There's dang near nothing there to fail. Edward I'm not 100% sure. It could be a wiring issue. But before I replaced it, I scanned the car and that was the code that came up. I also dropped the new VSS on the hard kitchen floor before I put it on (I'm clumsy) and the pin fell out. Would you know how to test the wires going to the VSS? Would the VSS itself have a specific reading? I assume the wires go into the ECM/TCM so if I were to check for a short I'd have to unplug either or both of them, right? Either way I'm working on scanning it today. Started her up earlier and the ABS light stayed on. Turned it off, started again, and it went off. Took off down the road and it came back on. Got where I was going. When I went to leave, I started it and the ABS light went off like normal. Then when I went to stop at the stop light, the ABS engaged (on dry pavement) and then it stopped and the ABS light came back on. |
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Post by ES_97Sport on Jul 16, 2015 14:50:22 GMT -5
... Are you SURE the VSS is failing? That's an electrical/mechanical unit. All it does is convert the rotation of the shaft into magnetic pulses. There's dang near nothing there to fail. Edward I'm not 100% sure. It could be a wiring issue. But before I replaced it, I scanned the car and that was the code that came up. I also dropped the new VSS on the hard kitchen floor before I put it on (I'm clumsy) and the pin fell out. Hmmmm. Yep, that might do it.  The Mitsu VSS is just a shaft with a magnet(s) and coil that creates a pulse that is translated by the ECM/PCM into vehicle speed. Which is why I asked if you were sure. However, dropping it would probably be one way to damage one. You never want to shock (drop, hit, whatever) magnets under normal circumstances. Yes, its possible to test the VSS. The FSMs have the information necessary for both the wiring as well as the VSS but I don't know myself other than what I've read in the manuals. Never had to do one. Testing the wiring requires removing the connector(s) ECM/PCM and using an Ohm meter to test the circuit. Not difficult. HOWEVER - you CAN NOT just go jamming any old test lead(s) into the ECM/PCM plugs or you're going to expand a connector and then you'll end up with some intermittent issue(s) from hell. The pins are tiny and I've never seen or bought a multimeter that had leads that small. There are test pin sets that let you stick the test pin in the connector and then attach the multimeter lead to the test pin. That's what I use. Got them off Amazon cheap. Edward |
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Post by r0llinlacs on Aug 11, 2015 18:04:21 GMT -5
Okay, finally got ahold of a scanner and there were a ton of ABS codes.
ABS related: (is listed under ABS codes)
RR Wheel Speed Sensor Erratic
RL Wheel Speed Sensor Erratic
FL Wheel Speed Sensor Erratic
FR Wheel Speed Sensor Erratic
RL Wheel Speed Sensor Open/Short Circuit
Rear Diff Lock Detection Switch
Freewheel Engage Switch Circuit
4WD Detection Switch Circuit
G-Sensor circuit
Wheel Speed Sensor Erratic
Engine related: (is listed under engine codes)
P0500 Vehicle Speed Sensor Problem
This last one is just more of an annoyance because the SRS light is on all the time
SRS related: (is listed under SRS codes)
Driver's Airbag Squib (Open)
Okay, so obviously I have a big problem with the ABS. I have a feeling I know why it's happening though.
1. It only messes up when/after it rains and I just started to notice this lately, after it has been raining a lot.
2. I know that water collects inside the hood (every time I open the hood after it rains, and it rained last night, water comes pouring out of the hood) and I think it is dumping water all over something under the hood, causing short circuits and "erratic" readings.
3. When I scanned the car, it was after I had driven all day and the ABS light went out and the ABS stopped acting up, which I think is because it (whatever sensor, connector, computer etc is getting wet) had time to dry out because of the heat from the engine.
4. I also monitored the sensors that gave faulty codes, while I drove the car. Every wheel speed sensor was reading correctly, and the voltages and readings from other sensors were good (obviously aside from the VSS which gave no reading at all) but also, the ABS was not acting up either, so correct readings were pretty much expected. Something is getting wet and I'd love to monitor these sensors when it's actually acting up.
The question is what is getting wet? The ABS computer? Isn't there a somewhat common problem with a certain part getting wet under the hood and causing ABS problems? Freewheel switch? Everything points to something getting wet and after I drive, and engine heat dries the water, everything is fine, and days where it doesn't rain, everything is fine.
Also there are no warning lights on the dash, only the SRS. When the ABS acts up, sometimes the light will come on, other times it won't, and when it doesn't rain everything works fine. Also all of the dash lights work, when the key is first turned to ignition the "bulb check" is successful and all cluster bulbs work fine, like check engine, A/T, SRS, ABS, etc.
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Post by jkdv8 on Aug 11, 2015 21:27:29 GMT -5
Wow that's quite a list. What type of scanner is it? Some of them can give you false info. Does the 4WD work or does the light flash? If all is well with the 4WD then I would think the detection circuit, and freewheel engage switch circuit are fine. Have you tried replacing the VSS with an oem spec one. I bet that is causing a lot of this if not all of it. Besides the airbag problem. Should also check the waterproof connector on the VSS. Now with the squib issue you should probably replace the bag IF there is actually a problem. It's the actual device inside the inflator that triggers the charge that inflates the bag. I wouldn't try to fix it but you would have to replace the whole airbag module and possibly the clock spring. That is IF there actually is a fault. If you feel comfortable it wouldn't hurt (hopefully ) to take it out to see if it just came unplugged hence the open circuit code. However, proceed with caution after disconnecting the battery and letting it sit for 15-20 minutes. Then keep any and all body parts out of the way. It could be numerous connectors up and down the steering column as well. Check there first. |
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Post by r0llinlacs on Aug 12, 2015 2:06:43 GMT -5
It was a Snap-On ETHOS scanner. The 4x4 works fine and so does the rear locker. The 4x4 light doesn't flash or anything, only when engaging 4hi or 4lo. I really don't think the VSS is the problem, everything works fine except when it rains, but I haven't tried 4x4 when it acts up. The only difference I've noticed without the VSS is that downshifting behavior is different. I'm thinking water may be getting into/onto the freewheel switch plug? ABS computer? Something is getting wet under the hood and I'll be damned if I can't find the thread I read about it.
Also, as far as the SRS code, could it be as simple as a pulled or bad fuse? I'm thinking not, since the scanner specified the driver's side. I've also experienced that, after so many miles (200,000 with my last vehicle), an airbag or SRS light will stay on until the SRS system is serviced (or usually recharged) by the dealer, and can't be cleared by any scanner (I did try to clear it several times and it kept coming back). Could it be that the driver's side air bag (squib) lost it's charge and is throwing a code? The vehicle has 204,000 miles, and that's not counting the miles I've driven without the VSS which don't count on the odometer, and I can only estimate to be about 3000-4000 miles, for a total of maybe 208,000 miles. If the SRS is going to get complicated, I don't really want to deal with it because I've seen airbags do bad things, and I always wear my seatbelt and I feel that's sufficient enough.
Edit: update for today. It didn't rain, and all went well, no mess ups today.
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Post by jkdv8 on Aug 13, 2015 19:22:33 GMT -5
Try checking the connector at the abs module. I think all the years had the pump and controller as one unit. Should be a connector on the front side of it with multiple wires. Make sure it is on there good and sealing properly.
The service notion isn't to far out of the question but haven't heard of it before on these models. Some manufacturers state that they are only guaranteed for x amount of years and should be "serviced/checked" at that time. Mitsu states that it must be inspected by an authorized dealer up to 10 years after registration. Most manufacturers state this but very rarely is it needed. Biggest issue with the squib is moisture related so it kinda depends on what sealing method mitsu uses. If they state every 10 years it would lead me to believe they are the plastic to metal type seal rather than the more reliable glass on metal type. Everything else is pretty solid. Keep in mind to however that a break of the connection in the clockspring can lead to this issue as well as any and all connectors coming from the squib to the SRS ECU (on top the trans hump.) It could get complicated but I would look into fixing it or just unplug the bulb and disable it all together. If you're ever in an accident it could fire to soon injurying you or whoever is driving, not firing at all, or firing after the accident when your trying to exit the vehicle.
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Post by r0llinlacs on Nov 20, 2015 19:34:33 GMT -5
I figured it out. The little nub that holds the rubber seal up by the firewall was broken and the seal was hanging down, letting water get all over the ABS module and plug. I just put it back in place for now until I find a way to secure it better.
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Post by r0llinlacs on Mar 2, 2017 18:08:10 GMT -5
Update on the ABS.
The light stays on all the time now and I have no ABS, and the rear diff lock won't work either. Bummed but still need to take a closer look, waiting for better weather.
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Post by jkdv8 on Mar 2, 2017 21:57:04 GMT -5
Is it throwing the same codes or any new ones. Has this been going on since or just recently.
Also wouldn't hurt to check and see if any insulation was worn through on those wires on both sides of the firewall.
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The Mitsu VSS is just a shaft with a magnet(s) and coil that creates a pulse that is translated by the ECM/PCM into vehicle speed. Which is why I asked if you were sure. However, dropping it would probably be one way to damage one. You never want to shock (drop, hit, whatever) magnets under normal circumstances.