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Post by redraif on Aug 28, 2015 17:37:19 GMT -5
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Post by ES_97Sport on Sept 1, 2015 13:13:21 GMT -5
245,000 miles. 2001 xls auto 4x4 3.0l So I have a 2 inch body lift with 285/75 r16 Well I assumed that once I sat next to a stock sport you would see a massive difference... well I managed to get some pics of mine next to 2 different sports with what I presumed to be a stock tire and suspension set up. What I notice is my nose is definately higher... but my rear not so much. I suspect rear coils have sagged significantly with age? ... Ah, yes. Welcome to coil springs. They may have sagged a little but if so, not much from what I can see. THAT is not the problem. Coils can't carry the capacity that leaf springs can. Nor do they last as long as leaf springs if they're actually expected to have a load on them frequently. This is not a Mitsu thing, a Montero thing or a Montero Sport thing. There's nothing actually wrong, it just how things are with coils and leafs. What you're experiencing with yours is why I don't like my '03. I can put 1000+ lbs in my '97s without even thinking about it. I can't put three suitcases in my '03 without hitting the bump stops. Articulation is better off road with the coils and link suspension, but the load capacity sucks. If you're building something to wheel on day trips where you'll just have some picnic stuff, recovery gear and your passengers are light then coils are fine. If you're building and expedition vehicle that has to carry 1000+ lbs of gear for two weeks, leafs are the only way to go. Edward
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Post by redraif on Sept 1, 2015 14:14:48 GMT -5
OK thank you Edward... Its not going to be a huge off road beast. Might have some fun with it though now and again. Nothing crazy to "break" the poor guy!
Was considering what springs to go with aftermarket. I know Ironman or OME. Just debating on heavy duty ones seeing as how the "stock" versions seem so blah performance wise. I am planning for the 2inch suspension lift. I know the rig will have to move heavy loads like a trailer or crap in the back. We kept it so it could work for us. The civic has a huge storage capacity for what it is, but its not fair to load it down with that kind of weight, so in steps the sport. The truck is engineless, so the sport has to do its work for now. Got a lot of yard work planned with stones and such to move.
Would Heavy duty rear springs be too much?
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Post by ES_97Sport on Sept 1, 2015 14:48:14 GMT -5
OK thank you Edward... Its not going to be a huge off road beast. Might have some fun with it though now and again. Nothing crazy to "break" the poor guy! Understand that. A coil/link suspension like the '00-'05 has IS actually a better setup for off road use and it does ride smoother than the leafs. That's the trade off - ride/articulation for carrying capacity. The stock ones are REALLY soft. I noticed that when I was driving the '01/'02 Sports. They didn't SEEM to be as soft as my '03, but I've never found any information that there's a difference in coil spring rates for the Sports, so .... Man, that's hard to say. I DO know that towing with the stock coils sucks. I use my '03 for that since I removed the trailer harness from my big Sport. The Sport is rated at 5000lbs with a 500lb tongue weight. If you actually get 500lbs on the hitch, its going to sag in the back and bottom out. Anything else in the back just makes it worse. The OME and Iron Man coils are a higher rate than stock but they're not a LOT higher. They MIGHT be sufficient if you're towing a few times a year and the tongue weight is low. The thing is that they can't be a lot higher rate or you loose articulation - which would kinda defeat their purpose IMO. The HD ones I suspect might be too stiff for a daily driver if you're used to the cushy stock springs. Unless, like me, you have 500/600lbs in the back all the time. Its really hard to say - springs are as much subjective as objective. I LIKE a stiffer suspension irrespective of whether I NEED one or not. A lot of people NEED a stiffer suspension but really don't like it so they go softer than they should. Its taken the better part of 12-13 years working with Alcan to get a spring rate that works as it should that I actually LIKE when I'm driving. What I would suggest is to contact OME and Iron Man and ask them what the rate increase is between the stock coils and their regular and HD sets in a percentage of increase. Also, KIM, that some spring producers (like the OMEs) make variable rate springs. My Alcan leafs in my big Sport are built that way while my 'Bird coils and leafs and the Skyjacker coils in the big Sport are constant. You ABSOLUTELY have to know what type of spring it is because that changes how you judge things a lot. Based on my figuring when I've considered changing out the '03 springs, I was thinking on the order of a 20% rate increase. That SHOULD improve cargo weight while not turning into my little '97s buckboard ride when its empty. But, that's just a guesstimate based on the changes we've done to the big Sport. While I don't think that's too much, it may not be enough. You might want to consider this, too. Go with the regular OME/Iron Man springs and install air bags in the back. Honestly, if you're trying to tow with a coil sprung vehicle that would be the best solution. This is pretty common even for crawlers where they want to run a soft spring but need to compensate for that occasionally. And, of course, 5th wheel rig guys do this all the time. Edward
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Post by redraif on Sept 1, 2015 15:13:15 GMT -5
Good points to ponder. I went with a constant 300lb spring rate when I made the rear coil over conversion in my fiero it needed a tight suspension... LOL! Now I can feel the tar repairs made on the cracks in the raod... LOL! but I like it! My 3rd gen bird has a progressive spring set up (Eibach). That was all they had for the v-6... we still had to cut the springs per their techs when it lifted the nose 2 inches... LOL! Apples to oranges I know! So that sports car/muscle car part of me is like go HD! But you are right I don't want to hurt the off road capabilities...
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Post by ES_97Sport on Sept 2, 2015 14:55:15 GMT -5
Good points to ponder. I went with a constant 300lb spring rate when I made the rear coil over conversion in my fiero it needed a tight suspension... LOL! Now I can feel the tar repairs made on the cracks in the raod... LOL! but I like it! My 3rd gen bird has a progressive spring set up (Eibach). That was all they had for the v-6... we still had to cut the springs per their techs when it lifted the nose 2 inches... LOL! Apples to oranges I know! So that sports car/muscle car part of me is like go HD! But you are right I don't want to hurt the off road capabilities... Its not just off road. If you get the rates between the back and front skewed it'll negatively affect normal driveability and safety. You were planning on getting the torsion bars and coils? Edward
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Post by redraif on Sept 2, 2015 22:17:11 GMT -5
The coils for sure.... had not decided on the torsion bars.... I assume from you asking I should upgrade them if I go Hd in the rear?
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Post by MonteroSportHonduras on Sept 3, 2015 13:51:13 GMT -5
I believe that if you stiffen the rear, then the front will be bouncing. at least that is what happens with the latin American version of the Nissan Frontier. They added heavy duty leafs in the back but kept the normal torsion bars up front on the 4wd, so the truck will go bouncing the nose if you get up to speed or the road is not smooth.
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Post by ES_97Sport on Sept 3, 2015 16:20:14 GMT -5
The coils for sure.... had not decided on the torsion bars.... I assume from you asking I should upgrade them if I go Hd in the rear? If you were planning on doing a 'kit' - matching front torsion bars and rear coil springs. I think I remember that the rear OME coils are +20mm. You can easily tighten up the front torsion bars if necessary to keep the ride height with that little lift. That'll stiffen up the front just a tad. Should come out pretty good. The HD coils ... mmmm ... If they maintain the stock height, you'll almost certainly end up with a choppy back end and a squishy front end. That doesn't work very well on the street and really doesn't on the trail. Edward
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Post by ES_97Sport on Sept 3, 2015 16:55:04 GMT -5
I believe that if you stiffen the rear, then the front will be bouncing. The front will have a lower rate - be softer - than the rear. The issue with the '00-'05 Mitsu Sports is that the front is already reasonably stiff, while the back is really, really soft. Going to a higher rate coil in the back would actually be of evening the already existing suspension out rather than technically 'increasing' anything. The Frontier guys need better designed leaf springs. Sounds like they're running leaf springs from some of our US sellers. What you're describing is NOT normal; its indicative of a very poorly designed spring. You can increase load carrying capacity without just massively increasing rate and you can do it so it matches whatever you have in the front. There's tons of info on this on Pirate 4x4 if you want to do some reading. I work with some of the 4x shops here and I have no idea how many times I've heard them complain about off-the-shelf leaf spring packages. Some manufacturers they won't deal with at all because they're so poorly designed. Edward
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Post by MonteroSportHonduras on Sept 3, 2015 19:59:49 GMT -5
Thanks for the explanation.and yes, seems like nissan didnt think out well with their frontier. Add the weight of a diesel engine and you have a spongy ride because of the soft front suspension.
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