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Post by redraif on Sept 8, 2015 14:27:11 GMT -5
Sport xls 3.0L auto 4wd. 245,000 miles. Timing belt done at 225,000 miles with Water pump. New water pump 3000 miles ago due to seal failure. less than 1000 miles ago (beginning of August) crank shaft pulley bolt backed out. Was reinstalled by a friend and truck has been 100% since, till this noise. So this clattering type noise just started this past week out of the blue. Its only when the truck is cold. AC is off. After a good drive its quiet. This is not the normal ticking you get either at cold start or a thrown rod sound. (yes I heard that before... 2 different engines. Will never forget the rocks in a dry sound) Checked the oil as it will make some nasty ticking when it gets low. It was a touch low, so I topped it off, but not enough to account for this. (On a side note... Tracking the leak is no fun. 14 cans of brake cleaner and about 5 hours of wiping and scrubbing to get the oil residue gone, just to try to track the leak. UGH! I hate previous owners who neglect things and shops that don't wipe things down when they take things apart.) Anyway, I digress, the noise. Due to recently throwing the crank pulley I checked it first. Solid as a rock! Its not wobbling either. To describe the noise, it sounds like plastic hitting something. Think card in bicycle spokes. First thing I looked at was to see if the fan was making contact with anything. Like a small stick or something to that effect...nada Belts don't appear to be making contact with anything. Can't see anything hitting any pulleys. Not sure what to make of the noise. A friend came by and took a listen. used the screwdriver trick. He detected a noise on the driver side of the timing cover. He shifted it towards the pass side and it went away. Looks like the timing cover might be cracked, or is it seamed at the passenger side valve cover? Thought that was it. But it did it again at next cold start. I checked the timing cover... nope not it. (The truck had actually been driven the morning prior to him listening to it, so it was apparently not presenting itself fully.) So I videoed the noise in hopes someone would have some insight before I have to give it to a shop to track the noise. Back of my mind said could it be something with the fan? the clutch going out? Been having some issues with cooling at idle in traffic on 90+ degree days. It gets to the 3/4 mark, but not over. Resolves as soon as the truck is moving again. But I do have a 2 inch body lift and have the lower bottom edge of the fan shroud off to clear the fan. First video: at the wheel wells and through the grill. Did not thing to video the engine bay. youtu.be/D8MZdwQcmdwSecond video: engine bay level. throttled it up a bit, but it stays consist ant with the RPMs and does nothing telling. youtu.be/3TjLjnRFyDcThird video: at home after errands fully warmed up. No noise. youtu.be/UJqzrPywOz0
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Post by jkdv8 on Sept 8, 2015 21:04:47 GMT -5
If I had to guess I would say the clutch in the fan or a pulley is on its way out. What was the electric fan doing in all the vids. Was it on or off?
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Post by redraif on Sept 8, 2015 21:49:54 GMT -5
The electric Ac fan was off. The clutch fan was on. I have the factory fan setup that spins with the motor's rotating assembly
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Post by redraif on Sept 9, 2015 9:54:54 GMT -5
Over at the Expedition portal forums a member asked if my timing belt tensioners were replaced when the belt was serviced. they were not. Would one of them make that kind of noise? Is there any way to verify since they are all covered by the timing cover?
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Post by bdmontero on Sept 9, 2015 14:43:41 GMT -5
I would guess the timing tensioner is going out and starting to eat up the water pump pulley too.
Sent from my SM-N900V using proboards
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Post by jkdv8 on Sept 9, 2015 16:12:30 GMT -5
Didn't think to mention that. Assumed it was changed this last belt job.
Unfortunately, it could very well be the timing tensioner. Especially if it has never been changed.
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Post by redraif on Sept 13, 2015 21:06:00 GMT -5
Might have just found the issue. Was under the rig to see how my oil free motor's exterior was fairing.... had a leak made itself known? found a leak. Could be the front pass cam seal? This was replaced though... hmmm... So I was tracing it up and forward. Right at the alternator, behind the timing cover... my flash light hit a glint of metal that did not seem right.... right up above the crank pulley.... Good grief the worn through plastic.... It's going straight to the shop. The Tech who screwed up the pulley install by not tq the bolt when doing the water pump... clearly did not install the timing covers right. Shop owner said most of the cars the x tech worked on have come back. The owner is personally taking the truck apart and seejng what is what. He seems to be honest and willing to fix things right on his dime. I hope there is nothing seriously destroyed under that cover. The shop is to report in on Monday....
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Post by redraif on Sept 13, 2015 21:14:34 GMT -5
Best guess on why the noise was present at cold start...
The plastic is rigid when cold. The truck starts and the pulley and such scrub the plastic and such. Truck warms up and friction has melted or softened the plastic. Noise is now quiet.
Let the truck sit overnight and the plastic hardens again...
What yah think?
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Post by redraif on Sept 18, 2015 10:49:16 GMT -5
Got a report today from the shop. The tech did not tighten any of the bolts to spec under the timing cover. The tensioner bolt had started backing out and the tensioner started rubbing on the lower timing cover... rubbing a hole through it.
Now I'm trying to get the shop to replace the timing cover. Seems they are moving spaces and were just going to button things back up. No way! That cover HAS to be REPLACED! The crank pulley and bolt I already said I wanted replaced. Its the original style, so the truck needs to go to the new improved version at a minimum. He is in a hurry to get it out of the shop. Well I'm in a hurry to get it fixed CORRECTLY!
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Post by redraif on Sept 20, 2015 0:43:17 GMT -5
So he is closing the shop or at least downsizing... ugh... making it difficult to get things clear that if it means we have to wait for mitsu to get the parts we have to. Wait my timing cover should look like... thanks to youtube... Here is what mine looks like... Close up... Ground out so perfect it looks like it should have been that way... lol... Had to show him the picture from the screen capture to prove it's was not notched from the factory. He is going to try to get a replacement cover used to get it faster. I told him he needs to replace it for sure. I'm not trying to risk trash or water in with my timing belt if this thing goes off road.
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Post by redraif on Sept 21, 2015 10:22:10 GMT -5
Talked to the shop owners wife just now. She was not happy that he suggested a junk yard part to replace the timing cover that was damaged. She got the Mitsu part number from me and is going to see about getting a new one ASAP!
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Post by ES_97Sport on Sept 21, 2015 14:42:34 GMT -5
... Had to show him the picture from the screen capture to prove it's was not notched from the factory. He is going to try to get a replacement cover used to get it faster. I told him he needs to replace it for sure. I'm not trying to risk trash or water in with my timing belt if this thing goes off road. Dust, dirt, etc. Yea, you don't want that uncovered under any conditions. Edward
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Post by redraif on Sept 22, 2015 12:06:35 GMT -5
OK I just got confirmation. They ordered a new lower timing cover from Mitsu that they are paying for. They also opted to pay for the new style crank pulley bolt.... maybe mine was damaged? Any way I'm paying for the crank pulley washer and new crank pulley. So all good! They came through and did the right thing.
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Post by redraif on Feb 5, 2016 12:03:27 GMT -5
So ever since this repair I have had an intermittent clattering noise at start up... it sounded ominously similar, but I could not get it to reproduce the sound on cue. Every time I had the video it would start normal. Not rolling video... there was the noise. GRRRR! However, when it did make the sound it would only be for a few minutes and it would go away. So my initial thought was that it was related to a loose AC belt. WAY LOOSE AC belt. to the tune of the AC would not work and the pulley bolt was finger tight only!!!! msport97.proboards.com/thread/11077/intermitant-after-change-loose-slippinTightened it up. got my AC back and some squeaks and clatters gone, but no the clatter on cold start came back. Again only every now and again. Oddly it seems to happen more in warm weather? Enough review... Ok so this morning it was back with a vengeance and did not fade away like it had been. Why I did not roll video is beyond me. Just too ticked off I guess... I was not thinking straight. I mentioned the below quote in my current thread about CEL lights... msport97.proboards.com/thread/10935/sport-0431-0401-0740-plus?page=4&scrollTo=62545OK... so I started the rig up this AM. That dang intermittent clattering was happening. We let the beast warm up to almost operating temps and the noise did not calm down. it almost seemed worse then normal. I keep fearing its the timing belt tensioner. The fact that it did not calm down worried me enough that I decided the civic with its slipping manual was a safer choice. I don't want to risk the timing belt flying off and destroying the motor. The noise was near impossible to isolate. In the front it sounds like its at the front. Stand on either side and it sounds like it on corresponding side. I have heard the NORMAL lift tick noise and this is way louder and more clattered sounding. I have had the bottom end go out in other cars and it sounds like rocks in the dryer. This is NOT that sound either. It reminds me of sticking something in a fan and having the blades hit the object repeatedly at high speed. Its near identical to the sound the sport was making when the tensioner was rubbing thru the timing cover. In the vids I posted the first go around someone said it sounded like the noise a bad tensioner makes. Hope that is all it is. So I guess I will fire it up tomorrow. If the noise is still as bad I will have it towed to the shop. I just don't have the resources to tear this guy down myself. Not when we need it on the road ASAP. If it is the tensioner, that is on the shop for leaving its bolts loose. I told him I worried it needed to be replaced once we saw it was what was wearing thru the timing cover. He wanted to be cheap and let it ride. I told him I was worried about it. So he can tear it apart on his dime and replace on his dime. I'm quite sure sitting in the wrong position with tension on it and loose bolts then coming into contact with the cover... so much so that it wore a hole thru it, could have very well hurt the bearings in the tensioner. and Can't the issues just cease for a little while? Oh and the oil level is fine!
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Post by jkdv8 on Feb 5, 2016 15:54:04 GMT -5
You can listen using a screwdriver against the engine to get a better idea where the source of the noise is coming from. Should be as long as possible and all metal for the best sound transfer. Keep your hair and everything clear of everything that moves.
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