Having an issue removing my brake fluid reservior cap
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Post by redraif on Nov 16, 2015 17:54:20 GMT -5
So is there a trick to this thing or is mine really boogered up.
I got a brake light indicator when the cold hit. I have read that this can light when the fluid gets low. Well I figured I would give it a check. Heck I should really do a flush anyway as the petal seems a bit less responsive then is should be. Although I am used to our DD 30 Civic. Well I was all set to go and I can't get the blasted thing off.
Is this a twist off or is it like a pill bottle with the press down and twist method. Just don't want to try to muscle it and break something.
On a side note...It really ticks me off as this is one of those things the shops are supposed to check when you pay for an oil change. Why is everyone so dang lazy nowadays?!
Another question... what is the best fluid... go back with the standard stuff Dot 3? Dot 4 or silicone Dot 5? Figure when I flush I might go for what's best!
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Post by dirk on Nov 16, 2015 20:53:55 GMT -5
not DOT 5 silicone based unless you plan on changing alot more than just your fluid (seals etc). 5.1 is not silicone based though. I used ATE Type 200, its a type 4, but is sometimes listed as super type 4 (marketing). I chose it because it was compatible, and has a high boiling point, and one of the higher wet boiling points. It doesnt absorb moisture as fast as race brake fluid, but is almost race caliber.
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Post by dirk on Nov 16, 2015 22:32:49 GMT -5
Oh yeah, my 2001 XLS it is just a normal righty tighty, lefty loosey cap, not catches or safety releases, just counter clockwise to loosen it. Mine was way over tightened when I first got it.
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Post by redraif on Nov 16, 2015 22:40:07 GMT -5
Nice! thanks Dirk
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Post by ES_97Sport on Nov 17, 2015 13:55:36 GMT -5
Oh yeah, my 2001 XLS it is just a normal righty tighty, lefty loosey cap, not catches or safety releases, just counter clockwise to loosen it. Mine was way over tightened when I first got it. Yep. redraif, make sure you warm up the engine bay good if its real cold outside. The caps do get sticky. Don't know why. Anyway, they are just plastic. If you really start cranking on it when it's cold it'll crack.  Edward |
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Post by redraif on Nov 17, 2015 14:42:47 GMT -5
Good tip Edward! Fortunately I discovered last night that I grabbed a junkyard spare... not sure why... but hey its a good backup just in case. It must have been easy to pull or I never would have grabbed it, that's why mine baffled me.
When I was fussing with it, it was after a decent drive... it should have been warmed... once I get this sucker off, should I spray anything on the threads to keep it from happening again?
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Post by ES_97Sport on Nov 17, 2015 16:06:44 GMT -5
Good tip Edward! Fortunately I discovered last night that I grabbed a junkyard spare... not sure why... but hey its a good backup just in case. It must have been easy to pull or I never would have grabbed it, that's why mine baffled me. When I was fussing with it, it was after a decent drive... it should have been warmed... once I get this sucker off, should I spray anything on the threads to keep it from happening again? Yea, I'm keeping a spare master cylinder now. After spending two weeks trying to get one in town and STILL having to order it ... BMCs are kinda one of those things you never need until you REALLY need it.  I'm real leery of putting anything on a BMC. Brake fluid is funny stuff. I don't know what would happen if brake fluid mixed with something else on plastic. I wouldn't be surprised if you ended up with some weird chemical reaction that softened or melted the plastic cap or bowl. I certainly wouldn't want anything getting into the brake system itself. So, ... I don't know. I've just made it a habit to lightly finger tighten the cap. Finger snug. If anyone has an idea, I'd like to hear it. Techs never had any ideas. OH, make sure the threads on the bowl and cap are clean. Brake fluid gets sticky - which is kind of the problem. MAKE SURE that you use a lint free CLEAN cloth!!! Some of the holes in the BMC are really tiny. If anything got into the system you could end up with other nastier issues.  Edward |
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Post by dirk on Nov 17, 2015 18:47:35 GMT -5
There was a 2003 limited with only 90K miles that the owner was parting out because the frame had multiple large rust holes in it. Last year prior to him scrapping it, I tried to get a a few parts. One of them was a BMC it was a 1 inch bore, my 01 XLS only has the 15/16 one. So I have a spare/upgrade when needed. I wish I could've gotten the whole vehicle. It had everything and was identical color as mine, body and inside prestine just the frame completely rotted. I could've swapped out the leather heated interior, fog lights, rear heat, and had spare body panels when needed. I did get the factory floor mats, and cargo covers, etc for like 75.00 for it all and a alot of missing odds and ends.
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Post by ES_97Sport on Nov 17, 2015 19:21:40 GMT -5
... One of them was a BMC it was a 1 inch bore, my 01 XLS only has the 15/16 one. So I have a spare/upgrade when needed. .... A larger BMC is not an upgrade. Going to a bigger BMC doesn't make your brakes work better. Which is probably something I should have been pointed out elsewhere. Master cylinders work two ways - bigger bore, more fluid moved, less pressure. Smaller bore, less fluid moved, more pressure. The volume of the BMC has to be matched to the volume of the calipers. So, unless you're actually putting the bigger rotors and calipers on that match that 1" BMC ... don't touch it. Edward |
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Post by dirk on Nov 17, 2015 21:57:09 GMT -5
My sport has the same larger calipers pads and rotors that came on his sport, only thing I did not verify was brake line diameter. Not sure why his limited had a slightly larger BMC, than mine.
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Post by ES_97Sport on Nov 18, 2015 15:00:52 GMT -5
My sport has the same larger calipers pads and rotors that came on his sport, only thing I did not verify was brake line diameter. Not sure why his limited had a slightly larger BMC, than mine. According to the 3000GT, Laser, Eclipse, etc. guys and from what I've found, typically you see a larger BMC piston bore on ABS vs non-ABS vehicles. For instance, the 3000GT with the same rotors and calipers used a 1" on non-ABS and a 1 1/16" on ABS. Otherwise, there was no difference. On ours, that doesn't hold true. The Gen 1 Sport used a 15/16" BMC irrespective of ABS or non-ABS. I've confirmed this with Mitsu. The Gen 2 all had ABS, but used the 15/16" or 1". I assume the 1" matches up with the larger rotors/calipers introduced in the Gen 2, but .... Based on what I've been seeing in the aftermarket parts catalogs, it would appear that it would be entirely possible to order a replacement and end up with the wrong BMC. This is a Montero/Montero Sport BMC ...  This is a 3000GT (car) BMC ...  If you take the reservoir off they both look virtually identical ...  It is possible - even from the dealership - to ONLY buy the piston casting without the reservoir (its cheaper) for all the SUVs as well as passenger cars. Since the piston assemblies are virtually identical, there's no way to tell if you have the correct one or not without checking the casting AND since not all castings have the size cast in, that's not reliable either. As I found out when I purchased a Raybestos Sport BMC last week. At this point, the only thing that might tip me off - short of tearing it down and taking a caliper to it and before I just installed it and my brakes started doing weird things - is the piston cup depth. The booster has a push-rod that fits into the BMC piston cup. The rod is adjustable for length. Depending on the BMC, the length of the push-rod needs to be adjusted differently. The difference between, for example, the 3000GT and the Sport adjustment is noticeable. VERY SMALL, but if you're using the Mitsu tool or a ruler, noticeable. So, honestly, it makes me wonder how many people are driving around out there with the wrong BMC installed. I know there have been posts over the years of people installing new BMCs and then complaining that the brakes still don't work right or behave differently. An educated GUESS is that going from a 15/16" to a 1" or 1" to 15/16" isn't going to result in totally inoperable brakes. The difference may not be enough that other than brakes that just don't work as well and feel differently, there may not be enough of a problem to get someone to dig that deeply into the system and figure out that the wrong BMC was installed. Things that make you go, "Hmmmmmm..." As for the lines, those are 3/16" and 1/4" - well actually they're the metric equivalent but this is what is used for replacement. I just bought two 25' spools to do the big Sport and the new '99. Anyway, that's never changed and those sizes are pretty standard across all far eastern manufacturers as well as a chunk of the US stuff. The only parts I've really messed with (non-ABS Gen 1) are under the hood - all of which appears to be 3/16". I've read random postings that the rear line is 1/4" but it sure doesn't look like that to me. Then again, there's not much difference between the two so that may be correct. I'll find out here in not too long. The '99 is coming home tomorrow. Edward |
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Post by jkdv8 on Nov 18, 2015 21:13:36 GMT -5
So is there a difference in the bore on the setups with 16" wheels vs the 15" that use different size calipers and rotors. I tried to take a pic of mine but couldn't get a clear photo and my phone battery was giving out  |
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Post by ES_97Sport on Nov 19, 2015 16:14:52 GMT -5
So is there a difference in the bore on the setups with 16" wheels vs the 15" that use different size calipers and rotors. I tried to take a pic of mine but couldn't get a clear photo and my phone battery was giving out THIS is why the dealerships require that you give them the VIN for the vehicle they're looking up. The more I dig into this the more it looks like every Sport out there was some one-off, custom made job. Sigh. Different calipers/rotors, yes, different rim sizes, no. All the Gen 1 Sports came with 15" rims even the '99 Limited. Those are all 15/16". All the Gen 2 Sports came with either 15/16" or 1". I don't know what the relationship is between the rims and rotors. I didn't realize until fairly recently that there were two different rotor/caliper sizes on the Gen 2 Sports.  I got this from the 3G guys ... The BMC bore size is tied to the rotor/caliper size. They have two or three different rotor/caliper configurations. I am positive of two - the 'standard' size that came on the NA ABS and non-ABS GTs and the 'Big Brake' setup that came on the turbo VR4 GTs. I have read snippets that suggest a third size that I think is a different caliper but same size as the 'standard' rotors. They use 15/16", 1" and 1 1/16". The two 'standard' sizes use the 15/16" and 1" and the turbo 'Big Brake' versions use the 1 1/16". The BMC bore diameter is tied directly to the capacity of the brake caliper. So, there were no 'Big Brake' systems with a 15/16" or 1" BMC. Ever. Likewise, the 1 1/16" ONLY came on the BB setup. It was never used on the smaller brake setups. This all makes sense to me since if you have a bigger caliper (more fluid volume) you have to have a matching BMC that can move that much fluid. This is the issue I theoretically have with my big Sport. I replaced the stock calipers with slightly larger Exploder calipers in the back and MUCH larger GM 1/2 ton calipers in the front. The fluid volume of the combined calipers is much greater than the stock calipers so I need a BMC that can move more fluid volume in the stroke of the brake pedal. So, if you assume that Mitsu followed the same logic - and there's no reason not to since this is just engineering - the Montero and Montero Sport (Eclipse, EVO, etc.) would follow the same design. In the design, the size of calipers is not based on the bore size of the BMC. The bore of the BMC is dictated by the size of the caliper. Following the same train of thought, if you have the smaller rotor/caliper setup, then you should have the 15/16" BMC. If you have the larger rotor/caliper setup, you should have the 1" BMC. I would hesitate to say that if you have the big rotor/caliper setup and a 15/16" BMC, you should run right out and change to the 1" BMC. AFAIKT, in theory this is how it should work. But, I don't know that there isn't some hokey reason that Mitsu put an undersized BMC on the big brakes or vica versa. The only absolutely positive way to find out is to supply Mitsu with the respective VIN and see what they say. The problem with that is Mitsu doesn't list the bore size of the BMC. You'd actually have to order one in, get it and look at the casting. It would also have to be a NEW one, not a rebuild or re-manufactured one, because the only castings that I'm sure have the size on at this point are the original OEM castings. I'm going to dig through my FSMs this weekend and see if I can come up with some more information. This is one of those times when I wished I had a full set of Gen 2 FSMs. Edward |
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Post by redraif on Nov 30, 2015 15:09:19 GMT -5
Well got the thing off finally... I had to use my oil filter tool to do it. Its the 3 claw design... The claws lined up prefect with the raised molded in bars on the cap. Level was a touch low, but not too bad. Probably why the light was intermittent... Fluid is dark though. Was going to do a fluid swap at the same time, but we had multiple sick pets over the holiday and they had to be the priority... and then lifting the dog in the sport and then stopping him from jumping over the back seat onto my grandson tweaked my back... so instead, my Sunday was spent on the couch not moving or my back would punish me. Guess I will add it to the growing list for next weekend.... |
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Post by ES_97Sport on Nov 30, 2015 15:30:33 GMT -5
Well got the thing off finally... I had to use my oil filter tool to do it. Its the 3 claw design... The claws lined up prefect with the raised molded in bars on the cap. Cool! That's scary. Those reservoirs must be a little tougher than they look. Hmmmmm. If the light was coming on at all it was more than a 'touch' low. I make sure and keep mine JUST over the full line in the big Sport. Off road you run a big risk of sucking air into the brake system if its even a little low. This I've learned from 17 years of wheeling the big Sport. Sigh. Yea, that's not good either. If its not clear then its definitely in need of a full system flush. Brake system flush should be done every two years. Brake fluid absorbs water - which is why you never leave the BMC cap off for any more time than is absolutely necessary - and then stuff starts corroding inside the brake system. That sucks. Sorry to hear that! Not the way to spend a holiday weekend. Edward |
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