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Post by jkdv8 on Apr 28, 2016 21:47:35 GMT -5
I would at least plug them. I was under the impression it kept the intake from freezing up as well as displacing heat (heat rises from the engine) much like it does with the engine but yea in that climate freezing wouldn't be an issue. However, you want the incoming air as cold as possible so that seems kinda counterproductive.
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Post by ES_97Sport on Apr 29, 2016 13:41:47 GMT -5
... However, you want the incoming air as cold as possible so that seems kinda counterproductive. Well, yes, and no. Fuel atomizes better at higher temperatures. The better the atomization is the more power the vehicle makes and in fact the less fuel is dumped into the exhaust unburned. This is less obvious on fuel injected engines and in warmer climates but its still a problem. Way back when I was DD'ing my 'Bird I used to swap the open element filter assembly for the OEM pre-heated air filter assembly in the winter. On carbureted engines in sub-freezing - especially sub-zero - temperatures, fuel atomization - or I should say lack there of - is a HUGE issue. It can actually get to the point where so much unburned fuel is going through the cylinders that you get cylinder wall wash - where the fuel actually washes the oil film off the cylinders and there is bare metal contact between the rings and cylinder walls. However, you are correct. The denser the intake charge the more oxygen is present in the charge, which means you can oxidize (burn) more fuel making more power. Moving the injectors as close to the cylinder - or into the cylinder - is an attempt to disassociate these two concepts from each other as much as possible because the two actually conflict. You want the intake AIR charge to say as cold as possible as long as possible but if you inject fuel into a super cold air charge it will condense into larger droplets making the fuel much more difficult to burn thereby decreasing power output and increasing 'emissions'. BUT, if you preheat the AIR charge to the optimum temperature for atomization, you decrease the oxygen content of the air charge thereby decreasing the amount of fuel you can burn thereby decreasing the power output .... So, like I said, you kind of have a physics conflict. The TB coolant stuff does NOT REMOVE heat from the TB to decrease the intake charge. It is a 'pre-heater'. Basically it just functions to attempt to keep the air charge not TOO cold at warm up. So, emissions and driveability, basically. But, it also functions to keep the TB from 'freezing'. I don't know if anyone on here has ever seen this since the conditions have to be just right and its probably more common on carburetors. In high humidity environments where the ambient air temperature is low - freezing and below - carburetors would actually 'freeze up'. The moisture in the air and velocity through he carburetor throats would act to super-cool the carburetor and the moisture would actually freeze inside the throats. The carburetor throats would actually be coated in a layer of ice blocking the fuel outlets and idle passages. Edward
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Post by MonteroSportHonduras on Apr 29, 2016 15:09:50 GMT -5
So it won't affect anything if I just block them up, right?
I am at 99*C right now with 63% humidity, that's 37*F
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Post by ES_97Sport on Apr 29, 2016 16:16:44 GMT -5
So it won't affect anything if I just block them up, right? I am at 99*C right now with 63% humidity, that's 37*F I wouldn't THINK so, but I can't remember everything I read year before last on this. The 3G/Eclipse/Diamonte/etc. forums have debated this quite a bit some time ago. Unfortunately, I can't remember if the consensus was to leave them connected (with an insulating gasket between the TB and manifold) or to disconnect them. Sorry. My experience tells me that you would probably be perfectly fine above 50-60F. Below 40-45F I would want the TB functioning like stock. At higher - 80-90F+ - whether that TB is hooked up or not, its going to be hot just from heat soak and surrounding ambient air temperatures. KIM, that while it won't decrease the air temp going through it, the coolant WILL keep the TB from getting blistering hot and heating up the air even more than it will be if its hot outside. Not knowing everything that Mitsu's engineers were thinking, I also don't know that running coolant though the TB doesn't prevent something from warping or deforming. Knowing how hot the engine and manifold gets on my big Sport in 105F in Moab, I really have no urge to find out what would happen. If I had to make a concrete recommendation and stick by it, I would have to recommend that everything be hooked up the way it came from the factory. Engineers never do something for no reason at all. It may be stupid, but they still have a reason(s). Not knowing what it is doesn't mean they didn't have one either. I'm just a little concerned with saying 'Oh, yea, totally leave everything off!' without knowing exactly what (and everything) they were trying to accomplish. I don't want to say go ahead and have you find out that when the temp hits 100F the TB deforms and starts leaking like a sieve. Edward
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Post by dclambertt on Apr 29, 2016 18:32:48 GMT -5
So it won't affect anything if I just block them up, right? I am at 99*C right now with 63% humidity, that's 37*F 99 degrees Celsius? Wouldn't that be about 210 degrees F? What am I missing?
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Post by jkdv8 on Apr 30, 2016 12:35:35 GMT -5
So it won't affect anything if I just block them up, right? I am at 99*C right now with 63% humidity, that's 37*F I wouldn't THINK so, but I can't remember everything I read year before last on this. The 3G/Eclipse/Diamonte/etc. forums have debated this quite a bit some time ago. Unfortunately, I can't remember if the consensus was to leave them connected (with an insulating gasket between the TB and manifold) or to disconnect them. Sorry. My experience tells me that you would probably be perfectly fine above 50-60F. Below 40-45F I would want the TB functioning like stock. At higher - 80-90F+ - whether that TB is hooked up or not, its going to be hot just from heat soak and surrounding ambient air temperatures. KIM, that while it won't decrease the air temp going through it, the coolant WILL keep the TB from getting blistering hot and heating up the air even more than it will be if its hot outside. Not knowing everything that Mitsu's engineers were thinking, I also don't know that running coolant though the TB doesn't prevent something from warping or deforming. Knowing how hot the engine and manifold gets on my big Sport in 105F in Moab, I really have no urge to find out what would happen. If I had to make a concrete recommendation and stick by it, I would have to recommend that everything be hooked up the way it came from the factory. Engineers never do something for no reason at all. It may be stupid, but they still have a reason(s). Not knowing what it is doesn't mean they didn't have one either. I'm just a little concerned with saying 'Oh, yea, totally leave everything off!' without knowing exactly what (and everything) they were trying to accomplish. I don't want to say go ahead and have you find out that when the temp hits 100F the TB deforms and starts leaking like a sieve. Edward From what I've read it's not worth the risk of causing issues for the minuscule gain in power. So it won't affect anything if I just block them up, right? I am at 99*C right now with 63% humidity, that's 37*F 99 degrees Celsius? Wouldn't that be about 210 degrees F? What am I missing? Not really sure about that either. Maybe he's talking about the coolant temp?! Idk.
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Post by MonteroSportHonduras on May 2, 2016 12:36:05 GMT -5
Temperature as of right now: 35 degrees Celsius.
The interesting part of hooking them or not doing it is that I can't find the lines coming from the radiator to hook them in the TB. those two lines I show in the pictures are the only loose/unhooked things the truck has. Probably someone deleted those connections from the radiator or engine.
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Post by ES_97Sport on May 2, 2016 13:35:52 GMT -5
... From what I've read it's not worth the risk of causing issues for the minuscule gain in power. .... That was my take, too. The point of keeping a carburetor cool is to prevent fuel boiling in the bowls, leading to raw fuel dribbling out of the carburetor and into the intake manifold and down into the cylinders and to keep the fuel itself as cool as possible. It has little to do with keeping the 'air' cool. Our TBs are thin and have a single throat so heat transfer from the TB to the air flow is insignificant. Even a couple degrees off the air temp as it exits the TB won't matter because by the time it winds its way through the intake manifold, it'll gain it all back and then some. But, I agree. From the little I've seen on dynamometer tests, it's borderline unmeasurable. Edward
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