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Post by loner6996 on Oct 12, 2017 1:25:47 GMT -5
Actually what you have is a basic on/off switch. A controller is what I previously posted. A temperature controlled on off switch. Correct. |
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Post by bdmontero on Oct 15, 2017 13:43:50 GMT -5
This was worth every penny especially seeing the numerous options it gives you. This is for a single unit fan but I purchased the dual fan kit. It uses PWM to soft start the fan/or fans in our situation. They can and will draw up to 85+ amps at start up on a straight system. As the fans get older they will draw more so it just gives me peace of mind knowing its being controlled properly. I have switched from a fused link to a circuit breaker for the main fuse. Would not want to get out in the middle of no where and not have a spare. š§  |
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Post by loner6996 on Oct 16, 2017 4:30:14 GMT -5
This was worth every penny especially seeing the numerous options it gives you. This is for a single unit fan but I purchased the dual fan kit. It uses PWM to soft start the fan/or fans in our situation. They can and will draw up to 85+ amps at start up on a straight system. As the fans get older they will draw more so it just gives me peace of mind knowing its being controlled properly. I have switched from a fused link to a circuit breaker for the main fuse. Would not want to get out in the middle of no where and not have a spare. š§ When I think of pwm or pulse width modulation, I think of computer fans and this article explains what pwm is and what it does www.ekwb.com/blog/what-is-pwm-and-how-does-it-work/With that said, pwm fans are handy because you can dial in the fan speed to create a good noise profile. When you have seven 120 mm fans running in your pc its nice to be able to control the speed so that they ramp up only when you need them. Now I'm not going to get too deep into whats covered in that article but when it comes to automotive cooling, noise is kind of an after thought, or so I feel. So if you take noise out of the equation, what other benefits can pwm provide? A more granular control of fan speed? Maybe more energy efficiency since the fan would only run as fast as it needs to? I think the fan would have to be made to work with pwm from the start. The fans we are using are either single speed or hi/low. I'm guessing The pwm controller must alter the voltage going to the fan in order to control the speed. But, the fan might not operate under a specific voltage or might need full voltage to start up and then you might be able to ramp the speed down using variable voltage. But then you still get that nasty amp spike. If you care to watch the video tour of my Sport that I posted in the general forum I spend a few minutes going over my cooling setup. I'm also gonna get up off of my lazy butt and do a write up on mine so people can see that they have multiple options. And I'm sorry if I come across as a know it all because I really don't know it all. I was pretty proud of my self for putting together what I have here with just some basic electrical knowledge and google. And I also have no evidence that the controller you posted wouldn't work. I just feel like it's needlessly costly and complicated. |
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Post by martin on Oct 16, 2017 9:17:09 GMT -5
Ok, some sherlock holmes deduction:
It is a petrol engine, so you are not changing intercooler radiator, you are changing engine coolant radiator?
If yes, why?
In my Sport it is a viscous clutch kind of system and I never had any problem.
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Post by bdmontero on Oct 16, 2017 20:10:44 GMT -5
This was worth every penny especially seeing the numerous options it gives you. This is for a single unit fan but I purchased the dual fan kit. It uses PWM to soft start the fan/or fans in our situation. They can and will draw up to 85+ amps at start up on a straight system. As the fans get older they will draw more so it just gives me peace of mind knowing its being controlled properly. I have switched from a fused link to a circuit breaker for the main fuse. Would not want to get out in the middle of no where and not have a spare. š§ When I think of pwm or pulse width modulation, I think of computer fans and this article explains what pwm is and what it does www.ekwb.com/blog/what-is-pwm-and-how-does-it-work/With that said, pwm fans are handy because you can dial in the fan speed to create a good noise profile. When you have seven 120 mm fans running in your pc its nice to be able to control the speed so that they ramp up only when you need them. Now I'm not going to get too deep into whats covered in that article but when it comes to automotive cooling, noise is kind of an after thought, or so I feel. So if you take noise out of the equation, what other benefits can pwm provide? A more granular control of fan speed? Maybe more energy efficiency since the fan would only run as fast as it needs to? I think the fan would have to be made to work with pwm from the start. The fans we are using are either single speed or hi/low. I'm guessing The pwm controller must alter the voltage going to the fan in order to control the speed. But, the fan might not operate under a specific voltage or might need full voltage to start up and then you might be able to ramp the speed down using variable voltage. But then you still get that nasty amp spike. If you care to watch the video tour of my Sport that I posted in the general forum I spend a few minutes going over my cooling setup. I'm also gonna get up off of my lazy butt and do a write up on mine so people can see that they have multiple options. And I'm sorry if I come across as a know it all because I really don't know it all. I was pretty proud of my self for putting together what I have here with just some basic electrical knowledge and google. And I also have no evidence that the controller you posted wouldn't work. I just feel like it's needlessly costly and complicated. Incorrect on both items. Check out the previous post I have on here and it explains why you want a dedicated controller. Me and another engineer explain why. |
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Post by loner6996 on Oct 17, 2017 2:30:01 GMT -5
Let's just agree to disagree. My setup is simple, cheap, and it works perfect. I intend to upgrade my 100 amp alternator to a 200 amp in the near future so the power spikes aren't an issue for me.
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Post by vr4madness on Oct 20, 2017 15:41:19 GMT -5
Did you remove the pulley and shorten the belt? I know performance shops try to gain engine response by using smaller lighter pulleys. Wondering if removal of the pulley and obviously a slightly smaller belt would make any difference? No I didn't go that far, I just took the fan clutch, fan, and fan shroud off. It would be really easy to make it stock again. |
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Post by vr4madness on Oct 20, 2017 15:49:58 GMT -5
I would be careful about not having a dedicated controller. These fans pull ALOT of amps at startup. A quality controller will gradually increase or a "soft" start up. Mine you can turn it on or off for river crossings. Or have it use a vehicle speed sensor so it turns off on certain speeds, or have it use one fan on 50% or both at 50% and go up to 100% if needed. A dedicated controller is an electric thermostat, fuse, relay and wiring. I have all of that. I just bought all of the parts separately. The electric cooling system I used on my 95 Ford F150 had a cooling fan from a 4.6 liter Thunderbird. That fan could draw up to 100 amps at startup. It was a BIG fan. That's also what melted my fan controller. I've also had a few cheap relays overtheat and get stuck on. I actually used the relays listed in the original post because they are rated up to 80 amps and they also come with a relay connector that has 12 gauge wire. no complaints with those so far. This is why I installed 2 relays. One is for the fans themselves which includes the sensor, but the other relay is to protect the fan relay. I couldn't find a dual fan relay that could handle more than 30amps, the ford contour has a 60amp fuse for its radiator fan. I knew that 30amp dual fan relay couldn't handle the setup so I installed another relay rated for 80amps to protect it. There there is also a 60 amp fuse between the battery and the main relay. That is probably why mine has not melted. I just went on a 1,500 mile drive and had zero issues. Went from Colorado to Arizona, went off roading in Arizona, and drove back. If it was going to melt, it would have by now. |
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Post by bdmontero on Oct 21, 2017 20:33:26 GMT -5
A dedicated controller is an electric thermostat, fuse, relay and wiring. I have all of that. I just bought all of the parts separately. The electric cooling system I used on my 95 Ford F150 had a cooling fan from a 4.6 liter Thunderbird. That fan could draw up to 100 amps at startup. It was a BIG fan. That's also what melted my fan controller. I've also had a few cheap relays overtheat and get stuck on. I actually used the relays listed in the original post because they are rated up to 80 amps and they also come with a relay connector that has 12 gauge wire. no complaints with those so far. This is why I installed 2 relays. One is for the fans themselves which includes the sensor, but the other relay is to protect the fan relay. I couldn't find a dual fan relay that could handle more than 30amps, the ford contour has a 60amp fuse for its radiator fan. I knew that 30amp dual fan relay couldn't handle the setup so I installed another relay rated for 80amps to protect it. There there is also a 60 amp fuse between the battery and the main relay. That is probably why mine has not melted. I just went on a 1,500 mile drive and had zero issues. Went from Colorado to Arizona, went off roading in Arizona, and drove back. If it was going to melt, it would have by now. The only problem with relays is you WILL eventually have contact arcing. Also Voltage spikes can happen when DC motors or magnet devices are turned off. Itās called the ācollapsing fieldāĀ from magnet energy stored in the motor or device. It will spike positive and then negative to zero volts this especially happens in big fans. These voltage spikes can damage solid state devices, even diodes in alternators, etc. This also happens when you stop cranking the starter on a high compression engine and on an AC clutch when it disengages.Ā To add to this you don't have any "suppression" with just relays. Also the length of the wire comes into play. A lot of people don't realize this. I just want people know this so they don't walk out to their car one day and its one big smoldering heap of metal and rubber on fire. This happened to a guy here locally recently. |
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Post by muddblood on Oct 23, 2017 10:41:58 GMT -5
Nice job! I like how the Ford Contour fan covers the stock MS radiator perfectly?
Schematics for wiring up the relays?
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Post by vr4madness on Oct 27, 2017 19:39:31 GMT -5
Nice job!Ā I like how the Ford Contour fan covers the stock MS radiator perfectly? Schematics for wiring up the relays? This is how I did it.  |
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Post by muddblood on Oct 27, 2017 20:40:17 GMT -5
Thank you!!!
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Post by vr4madness on Oct 27, 2017 21:05:39 GMT -5
This is why I installed 2 relays. One is for the fans themselves which includes the sensor, but the other relay is to protect the fan relay. I couldn't find a dual fan relay that could handle more than 30amps, the ford contour has a 60amp fuse for its radiator fan. I knew that 30amp dual fan relay couldn't handle the setup so I installed another relay rated for 80amps to protect it. There there is also a 60 amp fuse between the battery and the main relay. That is probably why mine has not melted. I just went on a 1,500 mile drive and had zero issues. Went from Colorado to Arizona, went off roading inĀ Arizona, and drove back. If it was going to melt, it would have by now. Ā The only problem with relays is you WILL eventually have contact arcing. Also Voltage spikes can happen when DC motors or magnet devices are turned off. Itās called the ācollapsing fieldāĀ from magnet energy stored in the motor or device. It will spike positive and then negative to zero volts this especially happens in big fans. These voltage spikes can damage solid state devices, even diodes in alternators, etc. This also happens when you stop cranking the starter on a high compression engine and on an AC clutch when it disengages.Ā To add to this you don't have any "suppression" with just relays. Also the length of the wire comes into play. A lot of people don't realize this. I just want people know this so they don't walk out to their car one day and its one big smoldering heap of metal and rubber on fire. This happened to a guy here locally recently. I have tried accounting for this by installing a 60 amp fuse on the power wire. If there are any surges above 60amps, that fuse will pop preventing any of that from happening. |
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Post by vr4madness on Feb 22, 2018 22:57:51 GMT -5
I just wanted to give a quick update on the reliability of the system so far. I have not been able to test it thoroughly in temperatures above 80 degrees F. But since I have installed it, I haven't had any major issues. One thing I forgot to do was seal the relays... I broke my first relay because water dripped into it from off the hood in a snowstorm. The fans kicked on with the truck off because the water was completing the circuit. This also caused the relay to corrode. Just $4 at auto-zone and some water proofing and it has been good. I have yet to have any other issues so the system seems to be reliable. I will update once it warms up and we get to some off roading in the Rockies.
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Post by vr4madness on Mar 18, 2018 22:32:48 GMT -5
Update:
I was able to get out into a pretty good off road trail this Saturday. My friend brought his Montero Sport with a stock cooling system. He has never had overheating issues but also had never taken his vehicle off road on a trail like this yet. We went to a trail in CaƱon City Colorado called "The Bank". This trail was the perfect environment to cause a overheating because it had really steep, long climbs with loose gravel and big shelves on these climbs. On the first hill his MS started to overheat (we had to stop and let his cool down for 115 minutes), to where as my temp gauge didn't budge in the slightest. I don't like seeing my friends MS overheat but if proved 2 things. A: That the MS has relatively common overheating issues in situations like that. And B: My custom cooling setup worked flawlessly. I am really happy I took the time to research and build this mod! If you have overheating issues while off roading, I highly suggest doing some kind of electric fan conversion.
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