4 wheel drive / All Wheel Drive question
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Post by bluemontyES on Oct 13, 2003 22:52:27 GMT -5
Hello To All, I've seen some Montero Sport, 2000+ has been labeled 4WD and some AWD, whats the difference? I seen Infiniti QX4 has 4WD, which you can activate a switch if you want to use 2WD, AWD, , Is it the same as the Montero Sport, you can use 2WD or AWD, whichever you prefer with push of a switch. If thats the case that would be really gas economy, leave it 2WD, cruisin around the city, the activate AWD when going offroading or slippery conditions! Any response much appreciated.  Thanks Chris |
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Post by tm on Oct 14, 2003 19:28:26 GMT -5
In 2wd all the engine power is sent to the one of the two tires that is moving the fastest. Typically the wheel that is moving the fastest is the one that is spinning with no traction or the the outer most wheel when turning. (1 of 2 wheels is getting the power)
In AWD the engine power is sent to which ever one of all four wheels that is moving the fastest. (1 of 4 wheels is getting the power)
In 4WD the engine power is split between which ever front wheel and which ever rear wheel is moving the fastest. (2 of 4 wheels are getting the power)
The reason the wheels going the fastest get the power is so that cars can turn and take corners smoothly.
In terms of traction, 4wd drive is better because atleast two wheels are getting all the juice, in the other modes only one tire is getting traction.
Now there are devices out there that improve traction. They usually work in the following ways.
(1)The tire that is spinning the most is "sensed" by the Antilock braking system. That wheel is then braked, thereby switching the power to what ever wheel now has the least traction. In the end the one tire with the most traction gets the juice because the other 3 tires have the brakes applied to keep them from spinning. Hopefully that tire has enough traction to get the car moving. This type of system works well with AWD and mostly on road use, its also the most "driveable" system. "REAL" off roaders usually hate these systems for off road because they dont "feel right". In short, most offroaders like to control the system not have the system controll them. But for on road people, using a vehicle with a well designed system, they can be great.
(2) Limited slip differental (LSD) this device takes some of the power from the wheel that is moving the fastest and rediverts it to the other tire on the axle. A good LSD will work reasonably well. Depending on the type of LSD a little pressure on the brake pedal may actually help transfer power over to the wheel that grips. The trade off is that there is some decrease in drivability, especially when making very tight turns on pavement.
(3) Locker. A locker is a device that actually locks the drive axle together so that both tires on the axle spin together at the same speed. This typically is the ultimate traction device but it also has the most drivabilty problems. If both tires on an axle are forced to turn at the same rate, it can be near impossible to make a turn. For that reason, lockers come in various types, ones you can turn off and on manually, ones that are "switched" on by one tire spinning much faster than the other. Usually off roaders prefer ones that can be manually controlled. However only a few Car companies actually make ones that are manually controlled. Usually automobiles that are equipped with lockers are equipped with the type that turn themselves on automatically. The systems either involve a system of gears locked by the centrifical force action in the axle housing caused by one tire spining faster than another. An other type involves a visoelastic fluid that gets harder and stiffer the more it is churned. The churning action occurs when one tire spins faster than the other. The problem is though that you may already be stuck by the time it has "locked"
All these devices can be placed between the axles or between the front and rear drive train of a vehicle. A vehicle with no such devices in its differentals is called an "open" differential. An AWD drive vehicle is one that has an open differential on each axle and open differential between the front and rear. 4WD is an AWD that is locked between the front and rear
Hope that helps explain things.
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Post by bluemontyES on Oct 15, 2003 0:38:15 GMT -5
Thanks a lot TM! You had explain a lot (in details). Chris |
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Post by skidplate98 on Oct 15, 2003 11:54:04 GMT -5
If you have a older Montero Sport you can switch between 2wd and 4wd, Correct me if I'm wrong but if you have the newer MS then you can switch between Awd and 4wd on a Montero sport anyway. Most of the time when they make a car with Awd it's just that, just all wheel drive only. And in some SUV's you can go to from Awd to 4wd. I don't know of any cars/ SUV's that go from Awd to 2wd. Are there? If there are they are probably automated. Skid Hello To All, I've seen some Montero Sport, 2000+ has been labeled 4WD and some AWD, whats the difference? I seen Infiniti QX4 has 4WD, which you can activate a switch if you want to use 2WD, AWD, , Is it the same as the Montero Sport, you can use 2WD or AWD, whichever you prefer with push of a switch. If thats the case that would be really gas economy, leave it 2WD, cruisin around the city, the activate AWD when going offroading or slippery conditions! Any response much appreciated. Thanks Chris |
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Post by CerOf on Oct 25, 2004 22:15:30 GMT -5
sorry for dredging up a very old post...
but wanted to clarify.
Most vehicles that are labeled AWD do NOT have a low range, or in other words, they do not have a 2 speed transfer case.
I think Mitsubishi calling the Sport an AWD vehicle is incorrect, should have called it full time four wheel drive.
They probably went with AWD because every other suv out there is labeled as full time 4WD.
New range rovers, Grand Cherokees, Land Cruisers are all full time 4WD, because they have a 2 speed transfer case.
Audi Quattros, Subaru's are AWD vehicles, single speed transfer case.
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Post by palmsprings on Apr 26, 2016 16:51:42 GMT -5
I noticed this too. The back hatch(lift gate door) has 4wd on it. The way its written it can look like it says 4wd or Awd as the A is written in a style that the brain can flip back and forth on whether its a A or a 4 . At least thats how my brain works or doesnt work.
the owners manual doesnt mention awd that ive found. on pg 4-17 & 4-15 it says "four wheel drive" & 4wd either 4H or 4L ( which is as most know,the transfer case's 2 spd range you already mentioned)
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Post by ES_97Sport on Apr 26, 2016 20:50:22 GMT -5
What a blast from the past ... You do realize this thread is from 2004, right? I think Mitsubishi calling the Sport an AWD vehicle is incorrect, should have called it full time four wheel drive. .... I noticed this too. The back hatch(lift gate door) has 4wd on it. The way its written it can look like it says 4wd or Awd as the A is written in a style that the brain can flip back and forth on whether its a A or a 4 . At least thats how my brain works or doesnt work. the owners manual doesnt mention awd that ive found. on pg 4-17 & 4-15 it says "four wheel drive" & 4wd either 4H or 4L ( which is as most know,the transfer case's 2 spd range you already mentioned) CerOf at that time didn't understand how the Sport drive trains worked. The Sport came in 2WD only (ES), 2WD/4WD and AWD/4WD. The 4WD models were lever switchable from 2WD to 4WD HI to 4WD LO and used a locking, chain driven transfer case. This is true 4WD in respect to the t-case. The vehicle can NOT be driven on dry hard packed and paved surfaces in 4WD as the front and rear axles are mechanically LOCKED together; driving on hard surfaces causes bind between the axles which will eventually damage the drive train. Functionally the same as a locking differential in an axle. The AWD models are AWD, 4WD HI and 4WD LO. There is NO 2WD ability. They use a viscous coupling for AWD that allows for the front and rear axles to turn somewhat independently of each other while maintaining power to both the front and rear even if one of the axles looses traction. This is ALL WHEEL DRIVE - NOT - four wheel drive and is basically the defining difference between the two. The reason Mitsu did the weird hatch sticker the way they did is because the AWD Sport really IS AWD AND 4WD in that it can do both. Once the transfer case is shifted into 4WD - either Hi or Lo - it is in 4WD, NOT AWD. The transfer case mechanically locks just like the 2WD/4WD models and it can not be driven on dry hard packed and paved surfaces. Corny but technically correct. The difference between 'Full Time' 4WD, AWD and 4WD is this ... 'Full Time 4WD' uses a non-locking transfer case. While this APPEARS on the surface to be the same as AWD, it is not. A non-locking transfer case is functionally the same as an open differential in an axle, while AWD works like a limited slip differential in an axle. 'Full Time 4WD' is a cost saving measure by the manufacturers who implemented it and by and large is a flaming POS. It has none of the benefits of AWD and none of the benefits of true 4WD. Mitsu NEVER used this in any US vehicle sold to the general public. The words 'Four Wheel Drive' (4WD) imply a locking transfer case with gear reduction. 'Transfer Case' is a generic descriptive term used to describe a device that will take power in (input) and distribute the power to multiple outputs. In the automotive world, it is very rare that you will see 'Transfer Case' used to describe a device that doesn't have gear reduction. In real life there have been a more than a few 'Four Wheel Drive' implementations in vehicles that use a transfer case without gear reduction; that is usually where you see the term 'center differential' used to describe the transfer case. This is almost always seen in passenger cars, minivans and such because there was no need for a 'low range' gear. Again, flaming POS. Its cheap and they got to put a 4WD sticker on the vehicle and sucker a LOT of really ignorant buyers. My '03 Owner's Manual mentions AWD. Haven't checked the Owner's Manual for the '99. Edward |
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Post by dclambertt on Apr 27, 2016 14:57:43 GMT -5
So Edward, what is the proper way to exercise 4WD switches and gearing on a 2001 model if you should not drive on hard packed surfaces? Should you only drive off road?
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Post by jkdv8 on Apr 27, 2016 17:45:35 GMT -5
Preferably, I usually find a dirt parking lot, dirt road, contruction site or the like. I have however done it on the road while it's raining, while there is a good amount of water on the surface.
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Post by palmsprings on Apr 27, 2016 19:20:37 GMT -5
What a blast from the past ... You do realize this thread is from 2004, right? I think Mitsubishi calling the Sport an AWD vehicle is incorrect, should have called it full time four wheel drive. .... I noticed this too. The back hatch(lift gate door) has 4wd on it. The way its written it can look like it says 4wd or Awd as the A is written in a style that the brain can flip back and forth on whether its a A or a 4 . At least thats how my brain works or doesnt work. the owners manual doesnt mention awd that ive found. on pg 4-17 & 4-15 it says "four wheel drive" & 4wd either 4H or 4L ( which is as most know,the transfer case's 2 spd range you already mentioned) CerOf at that time didn't understand how the Sport drive trains worked. The Sport came in 2WD only (ES), 2WD/4WD and AWD/4WD. The 4WD models were lever switchable from 2WD to 4WD HI to 4WD LO and used a locking, chain driven transfer case. This is true 4WD in respect to the t-case. The vehicle can NOT be driven on dry hard packed and paved surfaces in 4WD as the front and rear axles are mechanically LOCKED together; driving on hard surfaces causes bind between the axles which will eventually damage the drive train. Functionally the same as a locking differential in an axle. The AWD models are AWD, 4WD HI and 4WD LO. There is NO 2WD ability. They use a viscous coupling for AWD that allows for the front and rear axles to turn somewhat independently of each other while maintaining power to both the front and rear even if one of the axles looses traction. This is ALL WHEEL DRIVE - NOT - four wheel drive and is basically the defining difference between the two. The reason Mitsu did the weird hatch sticker the way they did is because the AWD Sport really IS AWD AND 4WD in that it can do both. Once the transfer case is shifted into 4WD - either Hi or Lo - it is in 4WD, NOT AWD. The transfer case mechanically locks just like the 2WD/4WD models and it can not be driven on dry hard packed and paved surfaces. Corny but technically correct. The difference between 'Full Time' 4WD, AWD and 4WD is this ... 'Full Time 4WD' uses a non-locking transfer case. While this APPEARS on the surface to be the same as AWD, it is not. A non-locking transfer case is functionally the same as an open differential in an axle, while AWD works like a limited slip differential in an axle. 'Full Time 4WD' is a cost saving measure by the manufacturers who implemented it and by and large is a flaming POS. It has none of the benefits of AWD and none of the benefits of true 4WD. Mitsu NEVER used this in any US vehicle sold to the general public. The words 'Four Wheel Drive' (4WD) imply a locking transfer case with gear reduction. 'Transfer Case' is a generic descriptive term used to describe a device that will take power in (input) and distribute the power to multiple outputs. In the automotive world, it is very rare that you will see 'Transfer Case' used to describe a device that doesn't have gear reduction. In real life there have been a more than a few 'Four Wheel Drive' implementations in vehicles that use a transfer case without gear reduction; that is usually where you see the term 'center differential' used to describe the transfer case. This is almost always seen in passenger cars, minivans and such because there was no need for a 'low range' gear. Again, flaming POS. Its cheap and they got to put a 4WD sticker on the vehicle and sucker a LOT of really ignorant buyers. My '03 Owner's Manual mentions AWD. Haven't checked the Owner's Manual for the '99. Edward |
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Post by palmsprings on Apr 27, 2016 19:42:44 GMT -5
My hatch back door says 4WD & my Transfer case says 2H,4H,4L. So i have no AWD
How do we tell a montero sport that has the AWD by looking? will the 2H say AWD ?
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Post by dirk on Apr 27, 2016 21:14:25 GMT -5
2002 on says awd, 4hi, 4lo 2001 and prior say 2hi, 4hi, 4lo
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Post by ES_97Sport on Apr 28, 2016 13:46:26 GMT -5
So Edward, what is the proper way to exercise 4WD switches and gearing on a 2001 model if you should not drive on hard packed surfaces? Should you only drive off road? Any vehicle with a locking transfer case (or locking 'center differential') should ONLY be driven on low friction surfaces. So, sand, gravel, snow, ice, dirt, etc. NEVER dry concrete or asphalt. Even hard pan clean dirt is hard on the tires (but won't harm the drive-train). Wet (NOT damp) concrete or asphalt is ok, although stupid and dangerous. 4WD in the rain on the street is NOT a good idea.  That's the problem with 4WD in general and why the manufacturers came up with "Full time 4WD", AWD and the "Part time auto-switching 4WD" implementations (Mercury Mountaineer). 4WD isn't meant for cars, mini-vans, etc. - in other words, street vehicles. 4WD was and is for off road use only. AWD is the street-able equivalent. In that way, Mitsu and Jeep really did have the right idea installing a AWD/4WD transfer case in the Montero, Montero Sport, Cherokee, Grand Cherokee, etc. In a vehicle that is expected to be used off road but still be driven on the street, you have AWD when you want it on the road and can still switch to 4WD off road or when the conditions are REALLY bad and AWD isn't enough. Edward |
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Post by ES_97Sport on Apr 28, 2016 13:50:10 GMT -5
My hatch back door says 4WD & my Transfer case says 2H,4H,4L. So i have no AWD How do we tell a montero sport that has the AWD by looking? will the 2H say AWD ? Correct. You have 4WD only. No AWD. The hatch says AWD in the lower right corner on the Gen 2s. VIN. Jack it up and look at the t-case. Hmmm. Good question. I've never paid any attention to the shifter handle in my '03. Edward |
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Post by loner6996 on Apr 28, 2016 17:23:57 GMT -5
My 02 has AWD and the shifter handle says awd/ 4 hi/ 4 low. Also the shifter knob it self looks totally different. The all wheel drive is more of a square rectangular shape where as the 4rwd is round. I just replaced my shifter with that stupid broken ball in my awd with a shifter in like new shape from a 4wd. The plate with the four bolts is bigger/ different so I had to reuse the one on the original shifter but other than that it works perfect.
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Thanks Chris
