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Post by ES_97Sport on Dec 30, 2014 15:17:49 GMT -5
... He cut the metal lines out of the fuel pump assembly leaving only some metal tubing inside the tank to act a coupler between the pump and the newly placed rubber lines. They then pass through the old metal line openings and out of the tank. Not a good solution. After making a comment in this thread I have noticed a fuel odor near the fuel tank now. No apparent leaks so hoping its just the vapor canister lines. Yea, I think I got that. I think my brain was trying to reject what I was reading. While not the most ridiculous and dangerous solution to a problem I've ever heard ... its close. Some RTV is not fuel safe. That crap dissolves over time. A lot of it isn't O2 sensor safe either. Which means if it gets in the fuel it'll kill the O2 sensors. A lot (most) people don't understand how much 30-40 PSI of pressure really is and how dangerous that is when combined with flammables. Story time... Back in the day, before GM miraculously discovered the concept of 'automatic shut off', it was fun to watch the occasional F-body (or other FI GM) burn to the ground after a front end accident. My grandparents got to see a T/A shoot burning fuel 20' into an intersection for 5-10 minutes after a he t-boned someone before the fire department showed up. Needless to say there wasn't much left by the time they got there. I've seen more than my share of vehicle fires myself - some of which were race cars. I run a 12 PSI high volume pump on my 'Bird. Many, many years ago it almost burned to the ground in my parents driveway. This was before I learned why you DO NOT run braiding over normal rubber fuel line unless you're extremely anal retentive. The fuel line cracked right at the back of the carburetor and in a matter of seconds soaked the entire firewall, and rear of the engine. The car had been parked for hours so it was cold, but the fuel sprayed onto the coil and distributor and a spark ignited the fuel. (this is why you always carry a fire extinguisher) 5-6 years ago I snapped the passenger side frame rail in half in front of the firewall. Got that fixed and reinforced promptly. Not a big deal. We were leaving for Moab in a week so I didn't have time to do the driver side. Like sometimes happens the driver side repeatedly got shoved aside for other, 'more pressing' issues. Last year it snapped in half while we were on the trail through Potato Bottom on the White Rim trail outside Moab. Yet again, I limped it back to Denver. Still not a big deal. Got it fixed and reinforced. However, somehow the fuel line managed to get tweaked enough to start wearing on something - never did figure out what - where it runs from under the vehicle along the frame rail up to the engine. The worst possible location (of course) since you can't actually SEE anything there. This spring I noticed a fuel smell in the engine bay for a couple days but couldn't find anything. Nothing on the ground or chassis. Took it in and had the senior tech look at it. Couldn't find anything. Then the smell went away for about a week. I thought it was EVAP or something like that and picked up an EVAP canister and parts. On the way to work the smell got bad and I noticed that the driver side frame rail was damp but it looked like brake fluid. I was on the way to the dealership and not far away so I just kept going. We looked at it when I got there and STILL couldn't find anything but there was still a raw fuel smell. Not wanting to drive it for obvious reasons, I left it. The next day I got a call from the senior tech. Interesting conversation that. Seems he had it up on the lift and running while trying to figure out what was going on. He'd resorting to jiggling lines hoping to either find something or make it leak so he could figure out what was going on. When he got to the front just inside the engine bay it decided to let loose. It started spraying fuel all over the bay. The next bay. The hot engine. In front of the bay. The hot exhaust. The floor. Everywhere. They said it looked like a fire hose went off in the bay. There was MUCH scurrying and panicking. Come to find out the line had worn almost through for about 1/3 of the way around, but not completely through. The little metal left finally cracked when he was giggling the line. That line isn't that big and the hole was still pretty small. They had to replace the entire line from the fuel filter to the engine, so I got to see what it looked like when they took the other line off. You wouldn't think that you could pump that much fuel through that small a hole in that short of time, but 30-40 PSI is a LOT of pressure. And, no, the engine did not shut off on its own. They had to lower the lift about 5' before they could get inside and shut off the vehicle. So, unfortunately I have some practical experience in this. Rednecking around with a FI system is a REALLY, REALLY bad idea. A hose clamp on a rubber hose over a steel line WILL NOT hold unless the steel line is flanged - correctly. Even the pressure in a race mechanical fuel pump for a carburetor is still enough to blow a line off. I know because I've done it a couple times even with a couple hose clamps. The steel line HAS to be flanged. Anyway, I wonder if they were even smart enough to make sure that line isn't going to rub on anything. If not that rubber line will eventually wear through and it won't take that long. Edward
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Post by russiankid on Dec 30, 2014 16:46:52 GMT -5
I've never had issues with fuel lines before, but I also never cut corners in that department either. Small things such as a high pressure fuel line versus a regular fuel on EFI setups and fuel injector hose clamps versus a regular worm clamp go a long way.
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Post by tirill on Dec 31, 2014 1:47:51 GMT -5
Well, well, As I have gone through most of the problems in this thread with corroded Fuel lines and also corroded fuel tank, I have the following comments: Few years ago I discovered the same problem on my -00. Gas smell at the left wheel house aft. I looked and could see very wet pipes and fuel dripping. I turned it to my local "small" workshop" and got the answer. Either we have to buy a new pump armature. In Sweden that costs some ridiculous 800$. Or we can do an sort of "cheap repair" but an repair we see as only alternative if you will not spend around 12-1500 to get this fixed. The "cheap" repair in this case was the described process to drill out the corroded pipe and replace it with an slightly bigger rubber hose. That was 3 years ago, and after that I have replaced the gas tank (due to corrosion of course) but the pump armature/arrangement is still the same, and works so far so good. Well, today there is alternatives, that was not available 3 years ago.....You can buy a cheap but functional parts to the Pajero Sport through Ali Express in China, and get something that works for maybe 100 $. But as long as my solution works, I will leave it as is.
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Post by tirill on Dec 31, 2014 2:06:05 GMT -5
Just to mention it, To take down the tank on the Pajero Sport is not difficult! It is just 4 nuts that sits on 4 pin-bolts. First time U do that I highly recommend that the 4 nuts should be replaced by new ones for future easier access. The dimension is M10x1,25/1,5 mm This is what in Europe is called Fine threads.
All gas must be emptied out first, otherwise it will be to heavy for at least one person to handle. The the two hoses to the filler/air evac the two cables to the pump and fuel meter, and then the pressure and return pipe for gas. The last hing is the pressure regulator vent hose for vapors etc.
First time I did this I did sleep bad in days before I dared it. After have done it 3-4 times I can make it in 15 minutes as easy as a piece of cake
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Post by r0llinlacs on Jan 3, 2015 16:40:23 GMT -5
Wow, I didn't think I would receive this much flack for the cheap fix. Almost exactly as the picture above except we did it to both lines. I have been driving it for a week like that and it's been fine, no leaks. I'll be damned if I pay that much money to fix a fuel line on a $600 car. I also had to butt-connect two rubber gas lines with a metal butt-connector and clamps inside the gas tank on my previous car that lasted 2 years and still worked fine when I sold it.
O2 sensors and rubber lines? The O2 sensors are probably already bad, and my previous vehicle had all rubber lines from the tank to the engine compartment and switched to metal inside the engine compartment after the fuel filter, how they should be, to prevent rust and corrosion under the vehicle. Just my humble opinion, but metal gas lines running underneath the vehicle is a BAD idea, and almost certainly always go bad, not to mention a bia to work with.
I can understand being iffy about the lines popping off and a flanged end sounds like a good idea, but I'm willing to take that risk in order to save several hundred dollars.
Also, if you're fixing these lines, it's probably a good idea to change out the fuel filter while you're down there, unless it's been done before. When we reconnected the rubber line to the fuel filter, the filter was so rusted it sprung a leak. The fuel that dripped from it was dark brown so I suspect it was original, with 200k miles. Needless to say, replaced it, and dumped some fuel injector cleaner in the tank.
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Post by colted on Jan 4, 2015 12:07:42 GMT -5
You should have lived in a third world country and should have seen that the fuel line fix that were mentioned above are all nothing but quite a norm to do.....even a local backyard but seasoned mechanics who's had decades of years working from a motorcycle, farm machineries all the way to passenger buses will do exactly the same rather than replace the whole fuel line assembly...aside from the fact that the above mentioned vehicles are used mostly in unpaved dirt roads...
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Post by russiankid on Jan 11, 2015 21:01:31 GMT -5
Looks I am the one of the unlucky ones with the rotted out steel lines. Ordered a new assembly today, hopefully the weather cooperates when I go to the drop the tank, and thankfully I have a second vehicle. Bad part, I just filled it up.
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Post by ES_97Sport on Jan 12, 2015 13:42:45 GMT -5
Looks I am the one of the unlucky ones with the rotted out steel lines. Ordered a new assembly today, hopefully the weather cooperates when I go to the drop the tank, and thankfully I have a second vehicle. Bad part, I just filled it up. Big funnel and a few jerry cans. Edward
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Post by russiankid on Jan 15, 2015 19:48:19 GMT -5
I've been burning the fuel out. I curiously called a local shop to see how much they'd charge for labor to replace it since the weather has been really cold, for $200 I can do it myself.
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Post by tirill on Jan 17, 2015 1:47:05 GMT -5
If U plan to do it yourself, take a good lokk at the tank as well!! When I did these fuel lines based on the same problem as You have, I missed that the tank needed an good cleaning, sandblastin and painting. I did oversee this as The tank looked good. So one year later I had to do everything agan but now with a leaking tank as well.Above U can see the nasty "Pitting" corrosion that caused me soo much trouble. IT ended up with I had to find another tank on the scrapyard. It could be posible to repair, but my premesises are to bad for that job for the moment.
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Post by russiankid on Jan 17, 2015 8:22:56 GMT -5
If U plan to do it yourself, take a good lokk at the tank as well!! When I did these fuel lines based on the same problem as You have, I missed that the tank needed an good cleaning, sandblastin and painting. I did oversee this as The tank looked good. So one year later I had to do everything agan but now with a leaking tank as well.Above U can see the nasty "Pitting" corrosion that caused me soo much trouble. IT ended up with I had to find another tank on the scrapyard. It could be posible to repair, but my premesises are to bad for that job for the moment. From what I saw my tank looks good, but I will be dropping it tonight so we will see what that reveals. I can see the leak in the metal lines on top of the tank which is why I have a new assembly ready to go in. My rear pinion seal is leaking so its spraying the fuel tank with gear oil, kind of like a self maintained rust prevention system.
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Post by russiankid on Jan 18, 2015 8:52:16 GMT -5
Here's a comparison pic of my old assembly versus the new one. I do not know how the old one didn't spray fuel everywhere because it was literally rust flakes holding the pipe together. All of the rubber vent lines were also toast, they were flaking, squishy, and gummy. So went ahead and ran all new vent lines, new fuel return line, the only line that was actually in good shape was the filler neck line. For those who come across this thread int he future, grab 5-6 feet of 1/4" fuel line before dropping the tank, and a foot of 5/8's for the filler neck overflow hose. This will save you trips and headaches in the long run.
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