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Post by tbaltazar411 on Feb 2, 2013 16:46:52 GMT -5
Ok so here's the background; 4 years ago the lights were left on and it wiped out my original OEM battery in my 2002 M.S., (that's 9 years). So after dealing with replacing batteries every 35 years from other brands in my previously owned cars, I decided to shell out $150 for the Optima battery to see if it would last longer. About a week ago I could hear the signs of a slight struggle to start, but after driving, it seemed charge up ok. A few more days would go by and then the same thing..... after leaving her for a week, it wouldn't start at all yesterday. I yanked the battery and took it to Autozone for an "analysis", it failed the short fast charge, and now they are going to do the "trickle" overnight to test again. I plan on replacing it anyways even if passes because i don't want the hassle, (I was just curious about the condition of the 4 year old battery that died and is supposed to last 10 years). On eof the guys I was talking to said he used his Optima for 5 years in his daily and then 5 years in his race car that no alternator, (so it would be depleted and recharged constantly). My two thoughts are: if there is possibly something wrong with my M.S., (regulator, alternator, or drain?, any ideas?). Or because I only drive it a couple days a week, the battery was not being exercised and led to premature failure. I work on Traffic Signals and the high $ glass mat batteries used by the two companies we have installed, (to back up the signal when the power goes out only last 5 years in a perfect condition), I don't see how Optima's could exceed that? Anyone got any insight?  ? |
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Post by tbaltazar411 on Feb 3, 2013 16:52:11 GMT -5
So the new development is a very slow trickle 24hr charge the battery charged back up. However when the vehicle is running I found the alternator to be at 14.5VDC and would slowly drop by .01. After driving around town I rechecked it and it now measured 14.1VDC, so I am assuming that it is slowly failing. Its 10 years old and at one time I did have a cam seal leak I had fixed about 2 years ago (which I have searched and found to be the leading cause of premature alternator failure in M.S.'). Any ideas or suggestions?
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Post by ES_97Sport on Feb 4, 2013 13:22:54 GMT -5
... (I was just curious about the condition of the 4 year old battery that died and is supposed to last 10 years). On eof the guys I was talking to said he used his Optima for 5 years in his daily and then 5 years in his race car that no alternator, (so it would be depleted and recharged constantly). I hate to say this because my entire family - and myself - have used Optima since the early '80 but the last 15 years or so their quality has gotten REALLY splotchy. If you get a good one it'll last forever and if you don't it'll last a few years.  I don't know if you're aware of this or not. The Red Top - which is what i presume you bought if it was $150 - is not a deep cycle battery. If you drain it completely down, it's dead. The only ones that are designed for that use are the Blue Top and Blue Top starting deep cycle batteries. Optima claims that the Yellow Top is a 'deep cycle' battery, too, and the same as the Blue Top starting deep cycle, but I've read too many claims from people that drained a Yellow Top and then couldn't recharge it or it died shortly thereafter to believe that. I used to use the Blue Top starting deep cycle battery in everything. Awesome battery. Or used to be awesome battery, anyway. I switched a few years ago to the Sears DieHard Platinum, which is nothing more than a relabeled Odyssey. Absolutely incredible batteries! I lost my alternator on my big '97 Sport with dual electric fans leaving Moab at about 6:00 PM a few years ago. It was in the mid '90s so both fans were running constantly. I couldn't get an alternator there without ordering one and waiting three days (longer 'cause it was a weekend) and our reservations were in Green River so we had no place to stay anyway. I drove all the way from Moab to Green River (with my 80w headlights on), stayed over night, then drove all the way to Grand Junction to Autozone to pick up a new alternator. The entire way only on battery power. Picked up the alternator, slapped it in in the parking lot and fired it right up. No charging, no jump start. Wicked batteries.  Edward www.4x4extremesports.com |
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Post by doarmihai on Feb 4, 2013 14:56:28 GMT -5
last summer i was at fish lake ut, when i notice problem with charging. i had a marine blue top optima that battery started to spray some fluid out from those 2 holes, and it was starting to deform really bad...my alternator was putting out allot . so i drove about 60 miles like that to the nearest autozone and i got a battery and a alternator. when i got back in vegas i went to autozone to test that blue top(when i change the alternator, the battery was to hot and deformed, and those people at autozone was scared to test the battery). so after it cooled down the battery test was saying the battery is still good  . i still have that battery |
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Post by tbaltazar411 on Feb 4, 2013 23:12:13 GMT -5
Thanks for the info guys...... got any secrets to test the alternator???
Here is the response from Optima when I explained the above and also asked about the $50 price jump.
"There are a number of factors affecting an alternator’s ability to adequately charge a battery. The greatest factors are:
1) How much current (amps) from the alternator is diverted to the battery to charge
2) How long the current is available (drive time)
3) Battery temperature
4) Battery age
Generally, running the engine at idle or short stop-and-go trips, during bad weather at night, will not recharge the battery effectively.
In the following situations, the alternator will not adequately recharge a battery:
1. The battery is drained because an interior light was left on in the car for 18-24 hours
2. The battery is drained because the vehicle has not been driven for a month or more
3. The car is only driven at 35 miles per hour to a nearby store and back 2 or 3 days a week
The most important consideration when storing any battery is to make sure the voltage never drops below 12.4 volts. We recommend using a "battery maintainer" – a device that will monitor your battery and keep it at full capacity during storage.
If it is not possible to use a maintenance charger, disconnect the battery from the vehicle during storage to prevent small electrical drains from discharging the battery. Always provide a full charge with a battery charger prior to storage, and then check the battery voltage periodically and charge the battery if it falls below 12.4V.
With any battery, a voltage below 12.4v has the potential to produce sulfation. This will reduce the performance of a battery by prohibiting the chemical reaction that causes the battery to hold its charge. This can be reversed as many chargers have a "de-sulfating" mode which pulses a charge into the battery. Even charging an Optima at a 10 amp charge can help reduce this.
The cost of materials has increased in the past several years.
Thank you,
Mary Jo
Optima Customer Service"
I guess she is saying that if it reads 12.2 its bad??
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Post by ES_97Sport on Feb 5, 2013 14:58:28 GMT -5
last summer i was at fish lake ut, when i notice problem with charging. i had a marine blue top optima that battery started to spray some fluid out from those 2 holes, and it was starting to deform really bad...my alternator was putting out allot . so i drove about 60 miles like that to the nearest autozone and i got a battery and a alternator. when i got back in vegas i went to autozone to test that blue top(when i change the alternator, the battery was to hot and deformed, and those people at autozone was scared to test the battery). so after it cooled down the battery test was saying the battery is still good . i still have that battery That sounds distinctly like over charging. Eeak!!!  Edward www.4x4extremesports.com |
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Post by ES_97Sport on Feb 5, 2013 15:14:50 GMT -5
Thanks for the info guys...... got any secrets to test the alternator??? .... Sorry. Nope. I have the volt gauge package in my Sports and for anything more I have an alternator/generator/starter rebuild shop that tests mine. Re: Optima response That's all correct, but I suspect it doesn't answer your question. No, not necessarily. I've rarely had a battery that read EXACTLY 12.4 volts. A tad more, a tad less. The best way to test is take the battery out of the vehicle and put it on a charger. Make sure it's completely charged and then test. The problem with testing in the vehicle is that the vehicle even when turned off is still drawing from the battery. The '97-'99 isn't as bad, but the newer Sports have more electronics and draw more. This can skew your readings somewhat depending on how long you wait to test. I run mine up and down all the time - I'm not very nice to my batteries. ;D That's why I use deep cycle starting batteries. Edward www.4x4extremesports.com |
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Post by tbaltazar411 on Feb 5, 2013 23:10:20 GMT -5
Ok fellas, this has forced me to learn quite a bit in a short period of time....... This is my conclusion.....
1. Symptom = battery dead
2. Have battery tested/charged = ok, but only 12.2V
(under 12.4V = recommended by Optima to replace battery, internal cells could be breaking down and/or sulfating starting).
3. Test alternator should be 13.8V-14.4V with the vehicle running = 14.1V ok not perfect
4. Pull battery terminals with vehicle running to see if it stays running and alternator is working = check ok
5. Parasitic Draw place DC amp meter inline with negative battery terminal with all lights off, doors closed, keys removed, etc = 59mA should only be 50mA, but hey 9mA can't be that big of a load, I'll do more experimenting later to located if needed (via fuse pulling to see if mA's drop).
6. Conclusion = replace battery and possibly Optima's suck
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Post by ES_97Sport on Feb 6, 2013 18:27:50 GMT -5
... 3. Test alternator should be 13.8V-14.4V with the vehicle running = 14.1V ok not perfect 14.1 is perfectly fine. There's a reason why it's a range. 4. Pull battery terminals with vehicle running to see if it stays running and alternator is working = check ok Eeak!!! Never ever, ever, ever, EVER do this on computer controlled vehicles!!! This was fine 30 years ago, although there was still a risk of blowing the regulator, but now this is a Cardinal Sin. Right up there with 'Never jump start other vehicles!' As I understand the explanation, Montero Sports (and Monteros) have part of the voltage regulation run into the ECU/ECM. A surge - like you can get from unplugging the battery cable(s) will fry the ECU/ECM. Jump starting another vehicle can case the same problem. Edward www.4x4extremesports.com |
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Post by tbaltazar411 on Feb 6, 2013 22:01:18 GMT -5
Uhm.... oops, I did it for a short duration.... hope everything is ok  |
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Post by heliman79 on Feb 9, 2013 22:37:52 GMT -5
ive had a similar experience with an optima battery but in the early 2000s and swore id never buy another one..but i have a question regarding the "no jump start theory"..i understand the possibility of over loading the ecu but but if you are stranded at 2 am like i have been and a dude just so happens to have a set of booster(jumper)cables its a risk im going to take:X. i have jumped many a vehicles computer controlled and not. my question is this has been done for 50+ years..but why do automakers suggest so strongly against this? not everyone has the 80 or so bucks for a new battery and certainly dont want to abandon the vehicle in a high risk area
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Post by monty98 on Feb 10, 2013 10:00:28 GMT -5
ive had a similar experience with an optima battery but in the early 2000s and swore id never buy another one..but i have a question regarding the "no jump start theory"..i understand the possibility of over loading the ecu but but if you are stranded at 2 am like i have been and a dude just so happens to have a set of booster(jumper)cables its a risk im going to take:X. i have jumped many a vehicles computer controlled and not. my question is this has been done for 50+ years..but why do automakers suggest so strongly against this? not everyone has the 80 or so bucks for a new battery and certainly dont want to abandon the vehicle in a high risk area Exactly my thoughts I've jumped many a vehicles both with my camaro and my truck. The trick is making sure that one is on the battery positive and the other is on the frame so that the "jump" goes through the engine fuse. That way if there is an overload it just blows the fuse? |
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. i still have that battery
