Pajer sport 2003 2.5 TD - Geoffrey
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Post by ES_97Sport on Dec 5, 2016 16:49:25 GMT -5
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Post by martin on Dec 5, 2016 17:51:07 GMT -5
Very nice, would like to try that once! Although here (Serbia) much less rocky, much more muddy . is there a front diff lock on any of MSs in the pictures?
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Post by ES_97Sport on Dec 5, 2016 18:12:37 GMT -5
One more thing, how good MS is offroad, dont see too many neither live or online and i am kinda newbee to offroading (i didnt get stuck, yet) The Montero and Montero Sport are very capable vehicles even in stock form. We wheeled in CO a lot way back when with nothing but better tires, manual locking hubs and a couple inches of lift. The big issues with the Montero and Montero Sport are visible in several of the pictures above. Poor approach and departure angles. The first picture is of my '97 Sport where you can see that I JUST BARELY clear the front bumper and that's with 23" of ground clearance under the frame. Picture #5 (my '97) and #10 (CoSport's '98) show the problems with the poor departure angle. I STILL have approach and departure angle issues today and the clearance now is 25". All the pictures except Steve's (SkidPlate's champagne '98) were running 33"s or 35"s. All the pictures of my '97 were with 35"s except for the river crossing pics. Those were 33"s. I think all the pics of Eric's Sport were with 35"s. I've been running 35"s on my '97 since 2002 and I've never had a tire caused issue and that vehicle has over 600K miles on it now. Its still my DD and primary wheeling vehicle. There's some basics you want to do if you're going to wheel it. Manual locking hubs. AT LEAST good A/T tires, although I prefer M/Ts. Mild M/Ts if its a DD, because generally M/T tires are built heavier and have more plies in the sidewall which is where 99% of tire damage occurs. A replacement front skid plate is very important - the one that goes under the front carriage and differential. That 'skid plate' is basically formed sheet metal which isn't going to protect anything least of all the front differential. Pictures #12 and #13 illustrate pretty well why rock skids - the bars you can see sticking out from under the rocker panels on all the vehicles - are VERY important. You can't see it from any of the pics of my '97, but I have a pretty good ding on the passenger side where I folded up one of the OEM tube 'nerf bar' side guards into the rocker panel. Of course, decent bumpers and a winch. #9 is a picture of my '97 slowly sinking in quick sand about 50 miles from absolutely nowhere. A 9000 lb winch is a good thing to have. A 2" suspension lift from someone like OME and a 2" body lift will give you plenty of room to clear 32-33" tires and won't adversely affect driveability on the road. This is a good point to start out from. A good amount of clearance without making it so top heavy that its dangerous off road. Eventually a locking rear differential would be a very good thing to have if yours didn't come with one form the factory and especially if yours only has the open differential carrier in the rear. Open differentials are going to SERIOUSLY limit what you can do off road no matter what other modifications you make. There are some things you must remember: #1 Sports have a long wheel base and the turning radius isn't that good. Its not as bad as some vehicles buts its not great. You will need more maneuvering room than any short wheel base vehicle like a Jeep or old 2-door Montero. #2 Stay out of the mud. Sports are heavy so they tend to sink like a rock, and they don't have a lot of torque or HP. They most certainly don't have the power to turn big 32/33"+ tires in deep, sticky mud. Remember these are IFS vehicles - they were not designed for 100+ lb tire/rim combinations, which is what you will have after the tires turn into giant blobs of mud. If you start trying to 'power out' of a situation, you'll bust something expensive. #3 Again. IFS/IRS vehicles are not designed for big, heavy tire and rim combinations. All those youtube videos of guys stomping the accelerator trying to go up rocks or through mud or whatever? DON'T DO THAT. Slow and steady does the job. This is an especially important point for wheeling 'noobs'. Good off road tires (M/Ts and even some A/Ts) are made of softer rubber than street tires. SOME M/Ts approach the 'softness' of drag racing slicks - they are VERY, VERY sticky. If you get a tire spinning and it suddenly gains traction, the shock will literally grenade axle shafts, CV joints, carriers and/or drive line parts. Never spin your tires! If you can't do it one way, back off and look for a different line. If that doesn't work, call it a day and go back. Good judgement is always a good thing no matter how much your buddies harass you. #4 Monteros and Montero Sports are heavy. They're built extraordinarily well which makes them well suited for off road use, but that also means that they're much heavier than a Jeep or old Toyota 4-Runner. My '97 has 600K+ miles on it with a lot of hard wheeling and still doesn't rattle or squeak. This is good from a longevity standpoint, but not so good for an off road vehicle because most of that weight is in the body. These vehicles are TOP HEAVY. Much more so than almost every vehicle I've ever wheeled with. How badly top heavy is something you will have to figure out for yourself (hopefully without flipping it in its side). There's about 500lb difference between the various model production Montero Sports, and every modification made changes not only the weight, but weight distribution and modifications are very different with our vehicles based on the individual owner. Do not EVER assume that because someone else can do an obstacle or something with a similar vehicle, that you can too. I wheel with guys/gals in 4-Runners and Jeep Cherokees which are very similar to our Sports who can do stuff that my '97 can not simply because my vehicle is much more top heavy. #5 Do NOT bind up the steering. Again, these are IFS vehicles and the front suspension - ball joints, a-arms, etc. - are not as strong as solid axles. If you turn the steering wheel to lock and try to force the vehicle out of and over something with the accelerator, you'll break something. Really this isn't a Sport specific thing, this applies to vehicles in general. Edward
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Post by ES_97Sport on Dec 5, 2016 18:26:50 GMT -5
Very nice, would like to try that once! Although here (Serbia) much less rocky, much more muddy . is there a front diff lock on any of MSs in the pictures? The pictures I posted of Steve's champagne Sport and Eric's black Sport with the yellow bumper were taken long before ARB came out with a front locking differential so those are both open differentials. #6-8 of my '97 had a rear ARB locking differential and an open differential in the front. Again, those pics were from way before ARB had a front locker. The rest of the pictures of my '97 are after the SAS (solid axle swap) in '02. That vehicle is running an early Ford Bronco radius arm suspension with Dana 44 solid axles front and rear. Both axles have ARB air lockers. I don't remember if I had the rear ARB installed in picture #8 or not now. I drove around with the ARB in the back seat for two years before I finally installed it. Which gives you an idea how important it is to have a locker if you already have the limited slip in the back diff. I do remember this pic was taken with no rear anti-roll bar and I THINK I had pulled the front one by this time as well. Those moguls are a lot bigger and that surface is a lot slipperier than it looks and I could drive up and down this all day long without a hic cup. Edward
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Post by martin on Dec 5, 2016 18:49:26 GMT -5
Edward, thats a great post thank you very much! Great advices!
I think that mine has limited slip diff, it seems so on the snow, must check.
My shooping list: 0. Chip tune 1. Lift 2. 33' tires 3. Front and rear steel bumpers 4. Rear diff lock if needed 5. Winch
But currently I am still checking how much will I (and where) go off road.
I bought MS to go off road but I like it so much that I drive it on dayly basssis - hence the chip tuning, it needs at least 20hp more.
Ill go with lift and tires this year, and then will see what is what.
Thanks again!
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Post by dirk on Dec 5, 2016 19:32:51 GMT -5
I missed what year your sport is. But Ed mentioned manual locking hubs. Great use when not off road. The added gas mileage and decreased drag / front end turning mass while accelerating is noticeable. But in the states any MS after model year 2001 is awd/4wd hi/4wd low. If you don't have a 2wd mode the locking hubs will not work.
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Post by ES_97Sport on Dec 5, 2016 20:12:53 GMT -5
Edward, thats a great post thank you very much! Great advices! I think that mine has limited slip diff, it seems so on the snow, must check. My shooping list: 0. Chip tune 1. Lift 2. 33' tires 3. Front and rear steel bumpers 4. Rear diff lock if needed 5. Winch But currently I am still checking how much will I (and where) go off road. I bought MS to go off road but I like it so much that I drive it on dayly basssis - hence the chip tuning, it needs at least 20hp more. Ill go with lift and tires this year, and then will see what is what. Thanks again! You're welcome! If I could rearrange your list slightly ... 0. Chip tune 1. Manual locking hubs & steering stabilizer 2. 2" body lift 3. 2" suspension lift 4. Front skid plate 5. Rock skids 6. Front bumper & winch 7. Rear steel bumper with tire carrier 8. 33" tires/rims 9. Rear diff lock if needed #0 is a good idea. You can do #1 if you have the 2WD/4WD model - you can not put locking hubs on the AWD/4WD models. #1 will help as much with performance & mileage probably as #0, especially down the road as you start installing larger tires. For off road vehicle use, its kind of a necessity. #2 and #3 are interchangeable but should be first on the list because fitment of other parts can be dependent on the lift(s). #4 and #5 are VERY important. #4 to prevent bashing the cover on the front diff and #5 to prevent damage to the rocker panels and doors. Just an FIY - armor is always at the top of the list along with recovery gear. Skids are also anchor points for recovery - yours or someone else's - as well as points for jacking up the vehicle using a Hi-Lift jack (which you will also need). Its easier and usually more cost effective to do #6 - the bumper and winch - at the same time. Speaking from personal experience here. Also, the winch falls under 'recovery gear' and you want that installed BEFORE you get the vehicle to the point where it can get you REALLY, REALLY stuck. #7 should be done before you fit tires to the vehicle that are so large that you can't carry a spare of the same size, and you want a steel rear bumper with a tire carrier. The 'why' has been discussed in another thread just last week. The abridged version: it won't fit underneath, you don't want it in the cargo area and a 33" on the roof is going to suck beyond belief - both to get it up there and to get it back down, and it makes the vehicle even more top heavy. #9 is a judgement call on your part. I think its wise to put it on the bottom of the list as there are unmentioned drawbacks that come with a locking differential. The problem with most locking differentials like the ARB is that they are open differentials unless engaged and since you DO NOT run a locked diff on the road that means they're useless on the street. If you deal with snow, ice, mud and slush in the winter on the roads and your vehicle is a DD, you are not going to be pleased with the vehicle's performance. If you do not currently have a limited slip differential, I'd find a used one and have it installed and and I'd prioritize this between #1 and #2. A limited slip will do a world of good on the street in the winter and it makes a significant difference off road - this is a win-win modification. #8 is really a two-part 'modification'. Its tires and rims. There's a lot of personal preference in what tires people run. Do a lot of research, look around at the vehicles around you that do well both on the street and the trail, ignore your buddies, STAY AWAY from the magazines, and be realistic. If you're driving back and forth to work or school 99% of the time, you don't need Boggers. AND, don't convince yourself you need 33"s because you just gotta have 33"s. Well, because they're 33"s, you know? 32"s might fit better and give you better mileage. If you can keep the tread mild if you choose M/Ts. You're drive train and suspension will thank you. If you're going with 32"+ diameter tire and a 12.5/13" (or the metric equivalent) wide tire, choose a rim that is between 8" and 9" wide and 17" in diameter. With a 33x12.5 tire, I would suggest a 9"x17" rim. With a 12.5" wide tread, the 9" wide rim will increase stability on the street as well as the trail and likely increase the lifespan of the tires. The 17" rim will decrease the sidewall quite a bit but will still be ok off road as long as you air down, but it'll definitely make the vehicle more stable and less prone to wandering. I would also suggest steel rims as they are cheaper in the long run and can be repaired on the trail in a pinch. In the US this is a pain in the rear and I don't know if it'll be any easier where you are, but I would strongly suggest changing the spacing on the rims to move the tires outboard. The idea here is to widen the wheel track to compensate for the increase in height by the lift(s). Increasing the width by even an 1" (1/2" per side) may not sound like much, but it makes a difference. Ideally if I were doing this, I would space the wheels out as far as I could before the tires contact the wheel wells under full articulation. 3/4" per side shouldn't be impossible but this is something that REALLY needs to be judged in a shop under controlled conditions, because if you get this wrong on the trail you can destroy a tire and/or rip a fender off. Edward
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Post by martin on Dec 6, 2016 9:41:25 GMT -5
I missed what year your sport is. But Ed mentioned manual locking hubs. Great use when not off road. The added gas mileage and decreased drag / front end turning mass while accelerating is noticeable. But in the states any MS after model year 2001 is awd/4wd hi/4wd low. If you don't have a 2wd mode the locking hubs will not work. Mine MS is 2003. 2.5TDI GLS with 2H - 4H - 4L, as I understand it, is not awd, it doesnot have "center diff", hubs should work, although I think Im too lazy for it (it would be always locked ) Acctually, i was just checking for vin number and saw that it is 2004 (ad stated 2003.) Anyhow, is there any vin decoder that work to check equipment on it (for my Mondeo (ford fusion in US) I found that I have electrical auxiliary heating)
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Post by bdmontero on Dec 6, 2016 9:52:21 GMT -5
Hey man don't worry you'll get there. We're all rooting for you. Just go crazy and do thisâș/20161206/94799ff88e312f4e007619c75b6fefc6.jpg[/IMG]
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Post by martin on Dec 6, 2016 11:53:59 GMT -5
That is the look I am going for! LOL
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Post by mrgalantguy on Dec 6, 2016 15:26:27 GMT -5
Looks great BD!!
I love that look..but I don't plan to go that extreme on mine. Mine will be a middle ground of a mall crawler and a weekend off trail/camping setup.
I have 2 other project cars that I have to fund.
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Post by martin on Dec 7, 2016 9:42:18 GMT -5
I have LSD! Jipi!
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Post by ES_97Sport on Dec 7, 2016 14:38:16 GMT -5
I have LSD! Jipi! Nice! I kinda suspected that would be the case but its good to hear. That'll save you from having to do anything with the rear axle for quite a while. Edward
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Post by martin on Dec 12, 2016 5:09:03 GMT -5
I found someone to remap it, he will rip me off, as it is Mitsubishi - Denso ECU, an old one, so it must be pull out of the car and then remaped.
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Post by martin on Dec 15, 2016 18:12:57 GMT -5
Edward, you made me rethink tires I have been researching a bit and realzed that there should be a testing ground, like when you want to buy skis, so you go and try different ones Iam thinking of narrower tire like 235/85. Trying to find used one to see how it will fit.
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