Pajer sport 2003 2.5 TD - Geoffrey
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Post by ES_97Sport on Dec 15, 2016 21:09:12 GMT -5
Edward, you made me rethink tires I have been researching a bit and realzed that there should be a testing ground, like when you want to buy skis, so you go and try different ones You have NO idea how many times I've said that. 30 years ago you could buy a set used, try them out and see for a few $$'s. $10-15 a tire - $50 for a set. Now used are almost as expensive as new ones so that doesn't work out too well anymore. You looking at a 16" or 17" rim? That's what, a 7.5-8" tread width? Looks like 32" in diameter on a 17" rim. A narrower tire will be easier to fit because usually the issue with contacting various body parts occurs when the tire is turned and the suspension is compressed. Lots of guys that wheel here run narrow tires even in the big (and I mean BIG) diameters, and a narrow tire will be a LOT more efficient on the highway which means better fuel mileage. From a driveability standpoint, it'll seem like you have more power because there's less rolling resistance. Wide tires only do one thing. They put more tread in contact with the terrain. In theory that seems good, but in practice its usually a big step backwards. Expanding the footprint decreases the pressure exerted per square inch. Very, very good in deep snow, deep mud, deep sand, and deep gravel - terrain where you want the vehicle to float on the surface rather than dig down. Unless you are specifically dealing with terrain like that, you're better off with a skinny tire that exerts more pressure per square inch on whatever you're driving on. Wide tires like my Geolandar M/Ts 'band-aid' the issue by using very, very soft rubber compounds, so you end up with wide tire that has the traction of a skinny tire because the rubber compound sticks to anything it touches under very little pressure. Its kind of the racing drag slick idea. You end up with a wide tire with excellent flotation in the above mentioned terrain, with exceptional traction on 'normal' surfaces. But, I can tell you now that that is not a perfect solution. In loose, shallow gravel/rock my traction is appalling. I've been on the trail with guys that walk up stuff with open diffs that I have to lock mine front and rear to accomplish the same thing. Big, wide tires are always in style. Which for the most part is what keeps tire manufacturers selling big wide tires. Most of the hard core wheelers I see are slowly moving to 38", 40"+ tires that have a much narrower tread than they did 15 years ago. I'm going to stick to the 12.5" on the '99 build, but only because I snow wheel and 4-5'+ of snow with no bottom is normal here and I deal with deep bottomless sand on a pretty regular basis. But, once my '97 is retired from serious wheeling duty, I'm going to switch to something as close to 10" as I can find. Edward
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Post by martin on Dec 16, 2016 7:10:57 GMT -5
235/85/16 that is 31.7"/9.3", kinda put my eye on BFG AT K02 as they have a snowflake on it, kinda for "winter". Now I am on Michellin Extra Load Latitude Cross XL 255/70/16 M+S, winter tire thread (stock size) and I call them summer tires That was mine thinking too, narrow tire should be overall better for me, and Ill get almost an inch of clearance, lower mpg, easzer to fit (should be able to put it now)... And when you watch any pro off road racing, tires are always narrow. Although looking funny. I dont know about the rims, still thinking about that. Tomorrow Iam going to a shop with set a date for lift
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Post by MonteroSportHonduras on Dec 16, 2016 11:08:26 GMT -5
We need pictures! hahaha
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Post by ES_97Sport on Dec 16, 2016 14:19:03 GMT -5
235/85/16 that is 31.7"/9.3", kinda put my eye on BFG AT K02 as they have a snowflake on it, kinda for "winter". Now I am on Michellin Extra Load Latitude Cross XL 255/70/16 M+S, winter tire thread (stock size) and I call them summer tires No matter what BFG says, those tires suck in the snow, mud, slush and rain. BFG A/Ts are like Thornbirds. People by them because they're cheap and they go all gaa-gaa over the tread pattern, but they are REALLY CRAPPY. They're good on dry pavement and wheeling on dry and wet slick rock. They're okish on hard pack snow and ice, but wouldn't be my first choice for that. This is speaking from personal experience. I've run them, friends have run them and other people I wheel with have run them, on the street and on the trail, so I've seen pretty much every situation in which they fail miserably. The Geolandar A/T will waffle-stomp the crud out of BFG A/Ts on the street and trail. Again, speaking from personal experience. I agree there. I know my black Sport is going to look a little weird with 10" wide tires. If you're going to stay under 32" and still plan to wheel it, I'd think about 16"s. But if you were going with 33-35" I'd probably go with the 17"s. Both will give better stability on the road, but a 17" on a 31 inch tire will decrease the sidewall height which isn't such a good thing on the trail. Edward
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Post by martin on Dec 16, 2016 17:38:46 GMT -5
16" is my pick, the problem in my head is that I dont want to build a monster truck, so to speak, but I would wont to be able to go off road. On the other hand I had MS for few months now and went off road for 3 times and with stock everyrhing I had no prroblem. I know im new to off road, but in normal car i have a ton of expirience on snow, ice, dirt mud... love to drift fwd and rwd cars. And I know that right tire is more important then most of 4x4 addons. That is why I am rethinking it so much 33" tire is, imho, border line for everyday and off road, without too many compromise. Maybe best solution would be to get a hi-jack lift and change tires depending on use, with air compresor that woyld be quick In that scenario I could go with M/T
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Post by jkdv8 on Dec 16, 2016 17:58:01 GMT -5
Thing you need to keep in mind with the bfg tires is they are an American tire company geared towards making tires for American cars and trucks which are a great deal heavier. The gvwr of these trucks don't come close to the curb weight of most American pickups and SUVs. Doubling or tripling the weight applied on the tire will significantly affect it's characteristics.
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Post by martin on Dec 16, 2016 18:31:16 GMT -5
First one
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Post by ES_97Sport on Dec 16, 2016 20:26:07 GMT -5
16" is my pick, the problem in my head is that I dont want to build a monster truck, so to speak, but I would wont to be able to go off road. On the other hand I had MS for few months now and went off road for 3 times and with stock everyrhing I had no prroblem. I know im new to off road, but in normal car i have a ton of expirience on snow, ice, dirt mud... love to drift fwd and rwd cars. And I know that right tire is more important then most of 4x4 addons. That is why I am rethinking it so much 33" tire is, imho, border line for everyday and off road, without too many compromise. Maybe best solution would be to get a hi-jack lift and change tires depending on use, with air compresor that woyld be quick In that scenario I could go with M/T I understand that. I agree with you on the 33". I think you'd be pretty happy with 32"s on 16"s. That's what I run on my '03 and I drive it on the street and I've wheeled it as well. Its a good moderate size choice for dual purpose. Yea, you could do that. For me it always seemed like too much work. And for me, I'd always have the wrong tires on. We have a tendency to take off on a spur of the moment from wherever we are, so .... Yea, I'd definitely consider the 32x16". I ran that size in Moab, UT and it did very well. Only real issues I had were height related - body, bumper and running board clearance, and a little undercarriage - but nothing going to a 33x17 would help one bit with. Do the things I was suggesting and slap 32"s on and you'll have a very capable vehicle and I think you'll be very happy with it. Edward
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Post by martin on Dec 17, 2016 3:46:36 GMT -5
Thing you need to keep in mind with the bfg tires is they are an American tire company geared towards making tires for American cars and trucks which are a great deal heavier. The gvwr of these trucks don't come close to the curb weight of most American pickups and SUVs. Doubling or tripling the weight applied on the tire will significantly affect it's characteristics. Ive noticed that, but here in Serbia I dont have a lot of options , for example in 235/85/16 size it is BFG AT, MT and goodyear WRL MT R and few other brands, that Ive never heard off (does not mean that they are bad)
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Post by jkdv8 on Dec 17, 2016 19:54:40 GMT -5
Yea ok, I gotcha I was just throwing it out there. I personally have had two sets of bfg's and haven't had a problem except for this last set had what appeared to be premature dry rot in between the treads. These trucks, like many other vehicles, do however like a softer compound which the bfg line is not. The yoko geolander they come with stock are soft and sticky but they wear out really, really fast. They also have a tread pattern similar to a passenger car tire so im not really convinced they would out perform a bfg a/t or any a/t for that matter off road. I'm sure the softer compound of the yokos give the best ride quality as well so that would be a plus. I haven't however had any experience with the all terrains you mention on these trucks but they do fair way better on bigger, heavier trucks. I know the trucks from the big 3 over here in the states will smoke them down to threads in no time but with these, if by chance you are able to break them loose, they just laugh at you, no chirp, no squeal, nothing, just a hop and a skip til they bite in then you're off.
I had the long trail t/a before these and they had like 70-75k miles on them and still had tread left when I replaced them. They were on the truck when I bought it at like 43k miles. My experience with the bfg's are that they are fine for this truck with everything except mud but, without having something with an inch or two gap in between the treads nothing will handle mud well especially the red clay we have around here. I will say the long trail t/as I had and the rugged terrains on it currently have served me well though. They also handle well in the rain IF your steering and suspension components are on the level.
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Post by martin on Dec 18, 2016 3:46:49 GMT -5
But those BFG A/Ts are at least twice as heavi as my current tire? I have an exel somwhere... I know that AT wont work in real mud, but that kind of mud is usually found on some trophy competition Btw, didnt go to shop yesterday But im off now to do offroading, sadly no snow Will post some pics later
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Post by martin on Dec 18, 2016 11:31:58 GMT -5
I got stuck! Parked myself on rear bumper too big climb.
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Post by Naeos_Valkarian on Dec 19, 2016 1:23:19 GMT -5
I got stuck! Parked myself on rear bumper too big climb. I did this the other day, backed right into a ditch in such a way where I was sitting on my rear bumper. It was hilarious, thankfully my sport is so light that me and one other guy were able to lift it out by hand.
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Post by martin on Dec 19, 2016 16:26:50 GMT -5
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Post by ES_97Sport on Dec 19, 2016 17:50:25 GMT -5
... The yoko geolander they come with stock are soft and sticky but they wear out really, really fast. The Sport didn't come with a Geolandar A/Ts, it came with all-season tires. H/Tsomething-or-other. They ARE NOT the same as the A/T-S (or the original A/T). BFG A/Ts don't self-evacuate worth a damn so they don't do well in ANY mud. BFG A/T KO2 265/75R16 - 53lbs Geolandar A/T-S 265/75R16 - 50lbs Geolandar H/T G056 - 49lbs Edward
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