Guess I'll be contacting them to get ny box rebuilt, going to feel strange having normal steering.
Oh, you have NO idea! LOL!! Its been eight months and I'm STILL getting used to it.
Yea, the PSC guys are awesome. I actually had them port both my boxes, too. I picked up one from the salvage yard, had that one rebuilt and ported and installed and then sent the old one back when it was out and had it ported and rebuilt, too. It's waiting to go in my little '97 right now. Don't know if I'll ever install hydraulic assist, but it's cheaper to do it up front and have the capability if I decide to than to do the entire job twice.
Not suggesting that you need or should have your box ported. There's absolutely no reason on anything not SAS'd and running 35"+ tires.
Yep. There really isn't that much difference. I have to keep explaining to everyone every time they want to know why I don't run 36"s or 37"s. The tiny difference just ain't that big a deal.
I run a Warn 9000 in my big Sport and a 9500 in my little '97 - mostly 'cause that's what the ARB bull bar is designed to take. Well, actually, the 9000. The new 9500 required 'modifications'.
I've never had an issue with using the 9000 being too light. Keep in mind, that you DO NOT have to buy a monster winch to get monster pulling power. You can just buy an $80 snatch block.
My big Sport weighed - the last time I weighed it in before the 3.5L swap - 5460 lbs with me and my normal load of gear - which is most of my misc parts, all my tools and spare belts, fluid, etc. and cold weather gear - emergency stuff in case I get stranded in the winter - a couple blankets and a sleeping bag, and survival gear. Loaded up for a week or more of wheeling and camping in Moab + three passengers adds about 1000-1500 lbs. And I wheel on slick rock with this weight and a 200:1 crawl ratio - and people wonder why I break springs.
Based on experience, fully loaded - without 20 gal of water and 10 gallons of gas
- I'd expect you'd come out at about 5500 lbs +/- fully loaded, not counting passengers. I suggest taking your Sport loaded up with whatever goes in it for normal around town and light wheeling down to the weight station and get a ticket. That's going to be invaluable info in the future.
So, pessimistically, figure 6000 lbs. A 12k winch is WAY overkill unless you half submerge your Sport in tar.
I DID actually submerge my big Sport in thick mud up to above the tires once a LONG time ago. I had no problem at all with the 9000. Nor did I have any problems pulling myself out of the quicksand we buried ourselves in on the Lavender Canyon trail in Moab. So, I'd suggest saving your money and sticking with a 9000/9500. Keep in mind, that you have to keep a close eye on GVW. Every pound you add unnecessarily costs you money somehow, be it in reduced gas mileage - VERY, VERY BAD for an expedition vehicle for a couple reasons - increased stress on parts thereby increasing maintenance costs, or whatever.
Get a GOOD high rated snatch block or two. A couple ropes - not snatch straps, but the extension ropes they sell now. They look like hawsers for boats, and don't stretch like snatch straps. One loop through snatch block back to the vehicle will double your capacity. It also halves your total line length, so that's why you need the ropes, but it's a good trade off.
AND, spend the money you save on a winch rope and pitch the steel winch cable. God I HATE that stuff!!! Heavy, hard to handle and it doesn't last worth a damn if you actually use your winch more than twice.
The rope on the other hand weighs almost nothing and is absolutely wonderful to work with - especially in the cold. And, get yourself some good, heavy, snug fitting, all leather work gloves and stick them under the seat.
OH, and don't stick the controller in the back under 1000 lbs of camping gear. LOL!!
No one 'plans' to get stuck.
Things happen. The insurance of having a winch can be worth a lot both in piece of mind and in dollars - not having to find someone to haul you out at $250+ an hour.
I never expected to get stuck in Lavender Canyon, either. In fact, the reason I DID end up in quicksand is because everything actually LOOKED normal. Right up until I hit the middle of the patch and then sunk like a rock.
Good example of being prepared saving your butt. I had my X and two step-kids and we were 17 miles back in on a trail that had flash flooded two days before. 10' of water wall to wall coming down the canyon. Pretty impressive.
90% of the time there wasn't even any trail left - had we not been there before we wouldn't have known where we were supposed to drive.
Anyway, even if we'd walked out (about 25 miles) there wasn't anyone that could have gotten in to pull us out - at least not for a week while everything dried out. Needles Park Service and the couple at the trading post are the ones that usually handle that, and none of them could even get into the canyon, let alone all the way to the head. Scary, considering what they drive out there.
It's not as bad if you have multiple vehicles, but even then that's not always enough. I big part of ANY kind of off roading is analyzing the trail, surroundings and even the weather. CO trails aren't too bad and you can get away with only paying 90% attention instead of 120% since we have relatively few trails that don't have 20 zillion exits and aren't 'high traffic'
and our weather isn't as flaky and the terrain here is mostly underlaid granite bedrock.
But, UT ... that's a whole different ball game. Lots of the trails see only a handful of people a year. It's not unusual to be 80-150 miles from absolutely nowhere, at which point you have another 80 miles to get to SOMEWHERE.
Slick rock is AWESOME! Tires and shoes stick to that stuff like Velcro. But, its also varying types of clay, sand, and silt (otherwise known as 'flower sand'). Add water and God only knows what you'll end up with. Flash floods are a common occurrence and it's impossible to judge the weather that you can't even see from the bottom of 100+ foot deep slot canyon. You can get caught in flash floods that started from a storm 100 miles away - and that happens frequently. Water is scarce to non-existant, but that 'puddle' your about to drive through in the wash you're in most likely is quick sand. One decent shower can make a trail impassible either because of flash-flooding or because the trail is clay and now it's like trying to drive on a solid sheet of Teflon covered ice covered in ball bearings. Lots of trails are inherently unstable due to the material they're built on. Banks are undercut, sand stone is split and cracks during the winter/spring .... And, sand. Lots and lots of sand. Stuff SO FINE it's like talcum powder - when you step into it you sink above your ankles with every step. I won't even get into the fact that most trails are barely discernible and not marked so half the time you don't even know if you're ON a trail.
Screw up or come unprepared there and it's entirely likely you may not come back at all. But, that's just what makes it fun, isn't it? LOL!!!
Easier and cheaper.
I have $100K+ in my big Sport counting some of my time, R&D, machine work, parts, etc. And it's STILL not a true crawler. Most guys that run buggies have $150K+ in their rigs. Building a good, solid expedition vehicle is a little more in most peoples dollar capabilities. Not to mention, their dollar abilities to maintain.
Crawlers are like race cars - giant, gaping money sucking black holes. You have to be either rich, crazy, single or 'D - All of the above'. My business partner says I'm mostly crazy. LOL!!!
Just because you're building an expedition rig, doesn't mean it won't crawl. You have to be realistic. It won't ford 6' deep rivers or cross fields of 4'+ boulders or climb up 30' waterfalls. The fact of the matter is, 90% of the trails out there no matter where you are ARE NOT THIS. They're 2-3.5 rated trails - which any halfway decently modded Sport will do day in and day out and twice on Tuesdays. I think there are still videos and pics of Hacket and Longwater here in CO. Take a browse. Those are 3.5-4.5 trails and CoSport and I used to do those all the time in my '97 and his '98. Iron Chest - a miserable boulder strewn mess if there ever was one - is nothing but a 4 mile trail composed of boulders. For the first couple miles you never even touch the ground - it looks like someone tried to pave the trail with 3' granite boulders. We did that a couple times and he was running nothing but 33"s and enough lift to fit them.
A good crawler, on the other hand, will that and more, but it will cost you an arm and a leg and the best aren't even streetable - they're trailer queens. But, what's the point? 99.9999% of the population don't need anything this capable. Build what you need to do what you need to do and make sure you can support it.
In AU or Africa - what we're talking about would be called a 'car'.
Nowhere in the US would you have to drive off road for 1000 miles. LOL!
In the US, it'd be known as an 'expedition vehicle'. An expedition vehicle is a independent, self-supporting, multi-purpose vehicle designed for on and off road travel over long distances.
A crawler is a single purpose vehicle designed to traverse virtually any type of off road terrain. It is not independent and certainly not self-supporting. They are at best barely street legal - and might get you to and from the trail head if its not too far and you may or may not die trying. Most get less than 10 mpg so their range is extremely limited. Everything is customized or custom built. The focus is the exact opposite of ANY other vehicle type. Capability and to a lesser extent durability is paramount. These are the crawler's gods and cost is no object.
So, it sounds to me like you're building the former. That's what expedition rigs are - really capable camping vehicles.
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Well, due to the complexity and state of high difficulty trails, there is always a substantial increase in risk of damage. MOST damage is due to driver error or as it's known in the field - driver stupidity.
Youtube is a BAD place to judge such things. No one wants to watch a video where everything goes fine and it all looks easy. It's like Nascar - people only watch for the accidents.
Also, the majority of videos do nothing but display bad behavior. They're still useful - but as examples of what NOT to do.
Damage does happen and it's inevitable. You can't be the perfect driver 100% of the time and the trail is not perfect 100% of the time and the weather isn't sunny and dry 100% of the time, etc. Ignoring stuff that's just worn out and broke - I've had to repair a tie rod, four body mounts, replace a transmission to transfer case adapter, a rear upper light/signal assembly and a lower light/signal assembly (my '97s have the valance lighting), a half dozen fender flairs and a steering stabilizer. Which is not bad for 15 years of wheeling especially considering that most trails I do don't drop below 3.5 and I wheel in crap weather.
If you're careful and don't let your buddies talk you into doing stupid stuff the damage will always be very minor. It took a couple years and 80,000 miles before I finally scored a flair and knocked a mud flap off.
Also realize that some parts are sacrificial. They're there to absorb the damage that would otherwise happen to what the part is protecting. Skids are the perfect example. Do not expect your skids to stay brand new looking forever. Scuffs and gouges are a sign that they're doing their job - and better they get the damage than the body. That means that they may need replaced eventually, but the parts they're protecting will still be in good shape.
Something you have to prepare yourself for psychologically - which most people are not - is the fact that wheeling is destructive. You will wear stuff out faster. You will break stuff. You will scratch and gouge stuff. You will need to do much more maintenance than a purely street driven vehicle. General wear and tear goes way up. Your Sport will not look the way it looks now five years from now. My big Sport looks like hell. Missing three flairs, dents all along the driver side, hood pins 'cause the hood latch hoop broke in Moab several years ago, scratches the length of the vehicle from branches, rock rash on the fenders, bumper, fascia and rocker panels. And, it makes me crazy when I look at the pictures from 12 years ago when it looked new. But, you have to accept that this is the price you pay for what you want to do. That's the way it is.
I've seen guys quit wheeling after their first trip off road with their new Jeep 'cause they got a scratch from a branch. I'm not slamming them - its their choice. Going off road is NOT the way to keep your vehicle looking showroom fresh and I understand wanting to drive a nice shiny clean vehicle. And, frankly, thrashing a $30-40K vehicle is hard for some to stomach.
You have to figure the costs and resolve yourself to deal with them. Or not. Its up to you to decide. You have a great platform but whether you want to beat the crap out of it ... well, that's something you need to decide.
On the other hand, after a few years you'll be able to make fun of all the mall-crawlers which is always a good source of entertainment. LOL!!!
THAT is just rough enough to be fun and relaxing and not wear you out.
I'll share a little talked about secret in the extremely modified/crawler world ... Having a vehicle that's capable of doing 4.5-5 trails takes ALL the fun out of anything less. And, as I said before 99% of the trails are MUCH less. Wheeling isn't fun if there isn't a little challenge. It's no fun if it feels like you're driving through a parking lot at the mall.
Those guys look like they were having a blast. That trail wouldn't justify getting out and locking the hubs on my big Sport - just drop it into 2-Lo (not even 2-Lo-Lo or 2-Lo-Lo-Lo). That'd be the only way I'd get any kind of a challenge out of it.
A less capable vehicle makes less damaging and dangerous trails a lot of fun - which keep you off the trails that will do serious and costly damage.
I had a buddy years ago that used to go with me all the time. After the SAS he quit going because he said it was boring now. He's right. All the trails within 100 miles of my house are now like driving through the middle of Denver - actually Denver roads are worse.
I know guys that have sold their crawlers to go BACK to more of an expedition style vehicle because everything was so easy that there was no point in going anymore.
I've taken both my stock '97 and my '03 out to Moab wheeling and they're as or more fun than my big Sport - and we came back and didn't have to start rebuilding everything. There's a lot of unrealized perks to having a nice, solid, mild expedition style rig.
Lots of guys start out like you and then go totally insane. They get the 'bug'. They start trying to keep up with their buddies or the guys in the club or whatever and it becomes an arms race. Before anyone knows it they have $100K in a vehicle that will climb straight up a wall but all the fun has gone out of it. They go way beyond anything they wanted to accomplish when they started. That's why I harp on figure out what you want and when you get there - STOP! Set a goal, know when you've reached it and don't keep going.
You don't have to get insane to have fun.
Edward