chef
Newbie
Posts: 24
|
Post by chef on May 5, 2016 15:00:49 GMT -5
I swear to god this truck will be the death of me!!!!
I guess the PCM finally did all it's drive checks and I'm now throwing P0421 & P0431 (Catalyst Efficiency Below Threshold Bank 1 & 2).
My guess is that the exhaust manifold crack & running rich was going on for so long before I bought the truck that now that I got everything before the cats fixed now that they are clogged.
FSM said to check O2 sensors and they are operating fine.
Anyone know of some cheap direct fit cats? <sigh>
|
|
|
Post by ES_97Sport on May 5, 2016 15:43:53 GMT -5
... the cats fixed now that they are clogged. Burned out. When too much fuel is dumped into CATs, they run way hotter than they're supposed to and it literally burns the catalyst out. Walker, maybe. I wouldn't guarantee they'll work but they're cheap. Edward
|
|
chef
Newbie
Posts: 24
|
Post by chef on May 6, 2016 16:00:27 GMT -5
RockAuto.com is looking about the best and cheapest of direct fits. I'm just hoping that I've gotten everything as to not burn out these new ones... I pray that I don't have injector stuck open or leaking into the cylinder.
|
|
|
Post by jkdv8 on May 6, 2016 20:38:12 GMT -5
Just remember you get what you pay for. Platinum isn't cheap and it is the main component.... Edward on here was just talking about this on another post where he took that route and ended up spending more on aftermarket cats than he would have buying oem. I think it was the post discussing California cats. I know they're not cheap and it's hard to justify. Just food for thought.
|
|
|
Post by dirk on May 7, 2016 19:09:02 GMT -5
And make sure you if you have California emissions system that you replace the 4 O2 sensors also. While it's apart the 125 or 140 it'll cost to get new ones will be worth it.
|
|
|
Post by ES_97Sport on May 9, 2016 13:55:18 GMT -5
... I'm just hoping that I've gotten everything as to not burn out these new ones... I pray that I don't have injector stuck open or leaking into the cylinder. Yea, been there, got the tee-shirt. I just rebuilt the entire exhaust on the big Sport a few months ago. The CAT was completely burned out. One of the reasons I started keeping a couple spare O2 sensors in the parts box when I go on vacation. I had a forward O2 go out several years ago out in UT. By the time we got off the trail and back to town and air freighted a new one from Salt Lake, the damage was already done. Thankfully it was one of the cheap non-OEM cats but it still cost $200 to replace it when we got back. Edward
|
|
chef
Newbie
Posts: 24
|
Post by chef on May 13, 2016 14:53:58 GMT -5
Well I had time to decide what to do about my Cats since my truck was in the body shop from being rear ended (Got hit in the hitch and tweaked the frame a little bit). Since I already passed emissions and I'm good for 2 yrs before I have to go back in, I'm just gonna live with the DTC light and cash in on some of my low carbon footprint living.
|
|
|
Post by jkdv8 on May 13, 2016 17:05:07 GMT -5
They have simulators that go inbetween the sensor and pipe that fools it into thinking all is well and gives the appearance that everything is on the level. Seems someone on here has used them before. They also make eliminators that are electrical that trick the computer into thinking there is a sensor there.
|
|
|
Post by pinstryper on May 13, 2016 20:34:59 GMT -5
inquiring minds...elaborate please...
|
|
chef
Newbie
Posts: 24
|
Post by chef on May 14, 2016 1:14:14 GMT -5
If I'm gonna spend any money on it , it will be to fix it right. And since I'm not harming my truck with bad cats then I'll just put off the right fix. Hell, if I can't afford new cats in 2 yrs then I don't need a truck. Lol
|
|
|
Post by jkdv8 on May 14, 2016 13:42:06 GMT -5
Well I couldn't find a pic small enough to post but it's something like this. www.amazon.com/Minicat-Sensor-Spacer-Adapter-Extender/dp/B00CBKEC06 This one is actually like a miniature cat converter just for the O2 sensor. (I'm not sure if this particular one will fit. Didn't look at the specs just posted as an example.) I personally haven't tried any of them to verify but people say they work. They also have them in different lengths and L shaped for clearance in tight spaces. With the standard ones I'm assuming the longer it is the better chance it will have at being effective. The electronic ones are a bit more involved and expensive.
|
|
|
Post by redraif on May 31, 2016 16:27:08 GMT -5
They have simulators that go inbetween the sensor and pipe that fools it into thinking all is well and gives the appearance that everything is on the level. Seems someone on here has used them before. They also make eliminators that are electrical that trick the computer into thinking there is a sensor there. I have the mil eliminators (capacitors on wiring) on our 03 Mustang and they worked 100% perfect. They were premade plug and play versions. Did not find a source for the sport. So on our Sport I had to get creative and go the hardware route. I did the double non-fouler spark plug trick. It worked reliably for a good set of miles. Got it to pass emissions just in time (had another issuistic code). I planned to get the cat replaced soon, but its been issue after issue with this sport thanks to the previous owner. Side bar...The po left the truck with codes for the trans over heating, egr, egr soleniod, all o2s, oil leaks from all seals and lord know if and when she ever did a timing belt. So thanks to Edwards comment above about his o2 killing the cat so soon... i now understand why ours died. Back to the non fouler... when the truck had its latest episode... no acceleration, weak acceleration when floored and coding...I assumed the cat finally clogged completely and was resticting the exhaust that bad. Towed it home... cut out the bad precat, just to see if it would accelerate again. No dice. Then i unbolted the rear cat... seems the front blew out into the rear. So no more rear cat. Tried to drive full open... still no accel. Still working on why, but when i got a code reader to me.... the truck, even with open exhaust... never threw a code via the rear o2... just a code p300. So double non fouler is a viable option, but.... Edward will tell you... its not good for these truck, as they rely on those rear o2 to keep the fuel trim at optimal. But for a short time or on a play rig... you might be ok for a bit... I need to look thru my pics to see if I took one of the non-fouler for reference, but its the standard way to do it. I will verify what part numbers I used and post up!
|
|
|
Post by ES_97Sport on May 31, 2016 19:12:01 GMT -5
I've been meaning to bring this up since no one had mentioned it ... something that has been missing in this thread is the other half of the equation, I think ... redraif is correct - I'm pretty sure she meant to type 'front' instead of 'rear' - fuel/air ratio is dictated by the data from - primarily - the forward O2 sensor(s). The one(s) in front of the CAT(s). The rear O2 sensors ALSO play a lesser part (don't let any of the dealership techs tell you otherwise), but still a part in air/fuel ratio. The rear O2 sensors primary function is to monitor effectiveness of the CATs. You CAN NOT run ANY Mitsu in the last two decades without functional O2 sensors. If one of the sensors decides to 'stick' lean, the ECM/PCM will DUMP fuel into the engine which will wash the cylinder walls destroying the rings and walls, fuel will get into the crankcase decreasing the lubricating ability of the oil causing abnormal wear on the bearings (and cylinder walls and rings) and totally destroy the CAT(s). ALSO creating a potential - very dangerous - fire hazard. CATs are designed to burn fuel - the more fuel you pump in, the hotter they get. Enough fuel in the CAT(s) can cause the CAT(s) to get hot enough to catch the vehicle on fire. I am NOT making this up - vehicle fires caused by a catalytic converter overheating aren't that rare. In fact they're about as rare as fires caused by people parking hot CATs over dry grass - which we had three years ago a few miles from my home, closing a major highway, burning 10 acres and nearly burning down several houses. You ALSO can not run a vehicle with O2 sensors WITHOUT CATs. The vehicle will NOT run correctly. This goes back to the rear O2 sensors tie-in to the air/fuel control. If you take the CAT out, the rear sensor(s) will not get a correct reading and will start to hork up the air/fuel ratio. I know from personal experience how well this works - or in this case, doesn't work - on the Gen 1 Sports. The newer vehicles get, the worse the problem gets because air/fuel control is weighted by the rear sensors more than earlier '90s vehicles. A lot of these CAT and O2 eliminator gee-gaws supply a signal that keeps the ECM/PCM OBD happy. They supply a signal that yields stoichiometric 14.7 ratio. Basically they accomplish the same thing as the ECM/PCM going into 'limp home' mode. No matter what changes, the air/fuel ratio stays at 14.7 because the 'O2' sensors are telling the ECM/PCM the ratio needs to be 14.7. You can't drive a car like that for any length of time without running into problems. You can't even set a carburetor to that and expect it to work right. I might also point out that a couple of the 'O2 eliminators' I ran across return a signal either rich or lean so its not even 14.7. The half that I think may be getting overlooked or missed, is the people running this stuff have - IN ADDITION - fuel controllers (with wideband O2 sensor(s)) that replace the functionality of the OEM O2 sensors and allow them to remove both the OEM O2 sensors and CAT(s). All the ones I've seen are not intended to be run by themselves. There is no such device that will 'fake' a ECM/PCM into thinking a CAT or O2 sensor is functioning correctly that actually works at more than on a rudimentary level - such as a CAT or O2 is present or not - because in order for the device to actually work correctly (fully), it would actually have to do the same job as an O2 sensor or CAT. You can't fake measuring the amount of O2 in an exhaust stream - it has to actually be measured. As I mentioned above, even aftermarket fuel controllers have to have a O2 sensor to work correctly. Yea, you would think it'd take longer. I've driven my '97 with the exhaust and O2 sensors off. Just the downpipes. Ran like crap. The tech drove it from the dealership six blocks on just exhaust manifolds. REALLY ran like crap and had no acceleration. It was drivable doing 35 down the street for a ways but that was about it. Excluding missing O2 sensors horking with the electronics - irrespective of whether there's a code - having no exhaust system DOESN'T make a vehicle 'run better'. Famous wives tale from long before I was born. As I've pointed out before, the exhaust system plays a big part in the design of a combustion engine and how it functions. Besides everything else I've covered multiple times before in re: exhaust systems, cam profiles are designed with certain things in mind - like having an exhaust system attached. This is why I always get a good laugh when some HS kid 'uncorks' his exhaust and then can't figure out why the vehicle won't run. And why 'open exhaust' systems with nothing but headers, STILL consist of at least headers. Engines don't run right just dumping straight out a little tiny manifold with 3" runners. ESPECIALLY street engines that have cam profiles ground for vehicles with full exhaust systems. And, I think I got off topic somewhere .... Edward
|
|
|
Post by jkdv8 on May 31, 2016 21:16:49 GMT -5
I have the mil eliminators (capacitors on wiring) on our 03 Mustang and they worked 100% perfect. They were premade plug and play versions. Did not find a source for the sport. So on our Sport I had to get creative and go the hardware route. I did the double non-fouler spark plug trick. It worked reliably for a good set of miles. Got it to pass emissions just in time (had another issuistic code). I planned to get the cat replaced soon, but its been issue after issue with this sport thanks to the previous owner. Side bar...The po left the truck with codes for the trans over heating, egr, egr soleniod, all o2s, oil leaks from all seals and lord know if and when she ever did a timing belt. So thanks to Edwards comment above about his o2 killing the cat so soon... i now understand why ours died. Back to the non fouler... when the truck had its latest episode... no acceleration, weak acceleration when floored and coding...I assumed the cat finally clogged completely and was resticting the exhaust that bad. Towed it home... cut out the bad precat, just to see if it would accelerate again. No dice. Then i unbolted the rear cat... seems the front blew out into the rear. So no more rear cat. Tried to drive full open... still no accel. Still working on why, but when i got a code reader to me.... the truck, even with open exhaust... never threw a code via the rear o2... just a code p300. So double non fouler is a viable option, but.... Edward will tell you... its not good for these truck, as they rely on those rear o2 to keep the fuel trim at optimal. But for a short time ir on a play rig... you might be ok for a bit... i need to look thru my pics to see if i took one of the non fouler for reference, but it the standard way to do it. I will verify what part number i used and post up! Yea raw fuel and converters...... very bad. The computer is suppose to cut fuel to cylinders that misfire til the issue is corrected but...... Also, if there is an issue with a sensor or system performance will suffer. These trucks don't have any power to spare so if there is an issue with anything it will be noticeable.
|
|
|
Post by redraif on Jun 7, 2016 15:25:32 GMT -5
I was referring to the code. So even after all that I was still getting a rough idle and when I tried to accelerate up hills I'd bog down and get a misfire code (multi &/or individual). Read up on here some more and thought I go to the You Pull It and pull off an ICU to trade out and test. My original ICU had tested fine with an ohm meter so I tried it anyways, so I put the wrecking yard part. What testing route did you go with the voltmeter... this one? www.ehow.com/how_12129688_test-bad-tr-power-unit-transistor-3000gt.htmlwww.stealth316.com/2-pwrtransunit.htmDebating weather its worth it to test mine or just swap in a yard part, seeing as how yours tested good...
|
|