New Member with an '03 Monty Sport

[hove102]

Hey everyone!

Just wanted to introduce myself and my new-to-me 2003 Montero Sport ES.  I picked it up from the original owner with 170K miles; he'd taken very good care of it and after driving it, I knew I couldn't pass it up.  I didn't know what to expect, and to be honest I'd only looked at the full-size Monteros, but I drove one and it felt like being at the helm of the Titanic!  They just seem really large; the Sport felt like it was the right size, and the one I just picked up felt really tight for 170K miles on the clock.  The original owner had taken really good care of the truck, and performed even more regular services than my fastidious father taught me to do.  Since I'm new to the Mitsubishi brand and Montero Sports, though not new to cars in general, is there anything specific I should look for?  My truck has the AWD t-case, which I have gleaned is not the best, but one I am nonetheless happy with since I'm not gonna be doing any gnarly wheeling, as well as the 3.0 V6, which I've heard is pretty bulletproof if maintained (which mine seems to have been).  I'm primarily going to be using my Sport as a DD, with some wheeling trips on the weekends to places like Death Valley and the mountains of CA.



Anyway, I'm really happy with him (his name is Emmet), and I look forward to many years of exploring behind the wheel of my Monty Sport!

[hove102]

Oh, and some of you might recognize me from Expedition Portal and the forums there. My username is exactly the same: "hove102". My profile photo is the same too.

[ES_97Sport]

Dec 3, 2014 1:31:58 GMT -5 hove102 said:

Hey everyone!

Just wanted to introduce myself and my new-to-me 2003 Montero Sport ES.  I picked it up from the original owner with 170K miles; he'd taken very good care of it and after driving it, I knew I couldn't pass it up.   ...

Welcome!

I didn't know what to expect, and to be honest I'd only looked at the full-size Monteros, but I drove one and it felt like being at the helm of the Titanic!  They just seem really large; the Sport felt like it was the right size, and the one I just picked up felt really tight for 170K miles on the clock.

Hmmmm. The Montero is only just slightly bigger and weigh only a tad more, but ... guess its what you're used to. The Montero and Montero Sport are built like tanks, though, compared to other SUVs. This is my DD ...



Its slowly inching up towards 600K miles. Still rock solid. No squeaks or rattles even though it's had the crap beat out of it since I bought it new in Jan '98.

... Since I'm new to the Mitsubishi brand and Montero Sports, though not new to cars in general, is there anything specific I should look for? ...

Spend some quality time on the General and Off Road forum sections. Just start reading. Also, www.4x4extremesports.com/. There isn't anything specific related to your vehicle that you need to know about ASAP. Mostly you need to bone up on the general knowledge.

Theoretically 'well taken care of' or not, the one thing you should do is get all the fluids flushed and changed. P/S, cooling, brakes, diffs, and t-case. Lots of people don't bother or don't know you are supposed to change these on a regular schedule so they end up being in there for ever.

... My truck has the AWD t-case, which I have gleaned is not the best, but one I am nonetheless happy with since I'm not gonna be doing any gnarly wheeling, as well as the 3.0 V6, which I've heard is pretty bulletproof if maintained (which mine seems to have been). ...

There's nothing wrong with the AWD t-case in either the Montero or Montero Sport. In fact, there's nothing wrong with any of Mitsu's old t-cases. They're rock solid. The problem is there are no or almost no gear options and 1.92 sucks.

There's nothing wrong with the 3.0L either. That is a rock solid engine and even abused it'll hold up for a long time. I finally replaced my 3.0L two years ago after 500K+ miles. One cylinder finally died - 0psi. It still ran like a top and passed CO emissions better than both my stock '97 and '03 Sports with WAY less mileage.

 I'm primarily going to be using my Sport as a DD, with some wheeling trips on the weekends to places like Death Valley and the mountains of CA. ....

Keep your wheeling light. If you change tire sizes, make sure you keep them rotated and wearing evenly. Keep your tire pressure set correctly. All the AWD specific things you have to do to keep from trashing the AWD part of your t-case.

AWD is a poor vehicle choice if you're planning on doing anything more than driving on dirt fire roads. I also have a '03 Limited AWD 3.5L. I've had it off road half a dozen times or so. I took it out to Moab the year after I bought it. It does ok, but the AWD part means no locking hubs and having to be real careful about what tires go on and how they wear. Too much overhead for a vehicle going off road. Gas mileage also sucks compared to my 3.0L Sports. My big Sport gets almost the same mileage as my AWD '03 and my big Sport weights almost 6000 lbs. and runs 35x12.5s.

Edward

[hove102]

Thanks Edward! You definitely gave me a lot of information. It's hard to find someone who'll go through someone's post section by section and answer each bit. I guess what threw me off about the full-size Monteros was the height. I'd never driven something that tall before so when I drove a Sport for the first time, I felt much more at home. I've heard they're built really well too, which was a HUGE selling point for me. I just got back from a semester in Australia and the amount of Mitsubishi 4WDs I saw down there absolutely floored me. If there's one thing I learned about cars/trucks while I was there, it's that if the Aussies like them, you can be sure they'll be super tough.

You made some good points about checking the fluids. I wish the owner had given me service history, because that's documentation that things were done (at the very least), but he seemed like a pretty trustworthy guy. That being said, I know you can't trust used car sellers 100%. From what I can see, my Sport needs the diffs serviced since they're a bit greasy (though not leaking). It also needs shocks (the originals are still on there...UGH), and new tires. It's got 31x10.50s on it, so I'll stick with that size, but I'm unsure of the brand I'm going to go with. My heart says BFG All-Terrains, but I know there are some other great choices out there.

I guess it's fortunate for me that I'm not planning to do any hardcore wheeling! I figured that AWD would be a half-measure when it came to off-roading, but I figured that for me, it'd be a good choice since the vehicle it was attached to was everything I wanted. What's the recommendation for how often tires should be rotated on the AWD Sport? Also, the t-case actually locks when you put it in 4-Lo, correct? Or is the center diff still in operation?

Thanks again for all the info! Good to know that buying a Montero Sport came with a good enthusiast community to be a part of!

[ES_97Sport]

Dec 5, 2014 1:42:44 GMT -5 hove102 said:

Thanks Edward! You definitely gave me a lot of information. It's hard to find someone who'll go through someone's post section by section and answer each bit.

No worries. Glad to help.

I guess what threw me off about the full-size Monteros was the height. I'd never driven something that tall before so when I drove a Sport for the first time, I felt much more at home. I've heard they're built really well too, which was a HUGE selling point for me. I just got back from a semester in Australia and the amount of Mitsubishi 4WDs I saw down there absolutely floored me. If there's one thing I learned about cars/trucks while I was there, it's that if the Aussies like them, you can be sure they'll be super tough.

Mmmm. Yea, I was introduced to wheeling back in the old days when everything sat 2' off ground from the factory so I never really noticed. Now that pretty much EVERYTHING is shorter than my big Sport, I get nervous driving my stock Sports. Last time I drove my 'Bird I was a nervous wreck by the time I got home. LOL!!

Yep. Outside of the US, its Toy, Landrover and Mitsu. Like the Big 3 here. The Montero and Montero Sport were never designed for the US. Those were originally designed to hold up in Oceania and the Middle East so they're designed and built a lot tougher than would be 'necessary' for sale in the US. The build quality is more evident in the '90s models. Not that the '00-'05s are junk, but Mitsu cut back on couple things. Less insulation in body, under-body and engine bay. IMHO, I think that was just kind of cheesy.

They'll still last a long, long time if you do the regular required maintenance. I didn't have to do any appreciable work on my big Sport until I hit 500K and so far its just been replacing the engine (cylinder 3 finally died about 530K) and replacing the sensors and solenoids. Everything else is still sound which is amazing considering how much heavy off road use it sees. I'm trying to retire my big Sport from long distance excursion trips and move to something a little more 'main stream' like a Toy LC. All the 4WD shops I deal with that specialize in Jeep, Toy, etc. all say the same thing. No way will I get anything that is as durable as my Mitsu and I won't be happy. Interesting coming from people that to me it would seem would have a vested interest in getting me into something they deal with more frequently and for them is cheaper and easier to work on.

You made some good points about checking the fluids. I wish the owner had given me service history, because that's documentation that things were done (at the very least), but he seemed like a pretty trustworthy guy.

Check with a Mitsu dealership. They can at least pull what they have and they use a central database so dealership and state is irrelevant. At the least it would be worth it to make sure any recalls have been taken care of.

Yea, I'm not sure the history from the PO is worth anything. I had everything on my little '97 going back to purchase and all it did was tell me how much they'd screwed up. I couldn't trust that they'd done everything correctly so I STILL had to go back through and check and re-do stuff. Sigh.

That being said, I know you can't trust used car sellers 100%. From what I can see, my Sport needs the diffs serviced since they're a bit greasy (though not leaking). It also needs shocks (the originals are still on there...UGH), and new tires. It's got 31x10.50s on it, so I'll stick with that size, but I'm unsure of the brand I'm going to go with. My heart says BFG All-Terrains, but I know there are some other great choices out there.

I'm not even kinda surprised the shocks need replaced if they're OE. They lasted about 6 months on my big Sport. Mitsu did good with everything else, but shocks ... not so much.

31"s are good. That's what I run on my stock '97. For one reason, it corrects the odometer and speedometer. Which is something to know. If it says you're doing 70 - you're doing 70. No kidding. With the stock tire sizes, Sports are off anywhere from 3-5 MPH. I had to bump my '03 up one size, too. It was off even worse than my '97. :rolleyes: But, 31"s fits well on the 15" rim vehicles. I hope they're not BFG A/Ts.

If you're looking for a good A/T, look at the Yokohama Geolandar A/Ts. I run those on both my stock Sports. They're soft so they're not a 80K mile tire, but they wear very well and very consistently on my '03 AWD. They're a great winter tire. Self evacuate better than anything else I've ever seen which makes them a great snow/slush/mud tire (for an A/T). I've had them through 2' of snow and slush here in CO a few times and I have not one complaint. I've also wheeled with them both in CO and UT. I'm very impressed with the flotation. I had my '03 out in the flower sand dunes NW of Moab a few years ago. Deep, deep, bone dry ultra fine sand. I was really afraid I'd end up stuck in the middle of nowhere but they did just as well (if not better) than my Geolandar M/Ts on my big Sport. I have to give Yoko credit. They produce some good stuff. I've been running both the A/T and M/Ts since '98-'99. Can't come up with something better to switch to and the cost is better than most everything else. Especially the M/Ts. Way cheaper than any other M/T.

I guess it's fortunate for me that I'm not planning to do any hardcore wheeling! I figured that AWD would be a half-measure when it came to off-roading, but I figured that for me, it'd be a good choice since the vehicle it was attached to was everything I wanted.

The AWD isn't really a bad thing. Its just limiting. And it's not AWD mechanically, its just how everything is implemented. Really puts a cap on modifications. But, sounds like its not going to affect you a whole lot. The gearing is the big PITA. Which, if you keep your tire sizes sane, won't be a problem. The real problem comes up when you go to 33/35" tires and don't change the axle ratios. 33"s with 1.92, even with the 4.90s, is horrible. You almost might as well not have 4WD LO.

There is virtually no difference functionality-wise between the standard t-case and the AWD t-case. The big gottcha is that a lot of AWD t-cases don't lock when you shift into 4WD Hi/Lo. That makes the vehicle totally useless both off road and in deep snow/slush. All Mitsu t-cases, however, lock in 4WD Hi/Lo so you're good.

One thing the techs passed on to me when I got my AWD, was to shift into 4WD Hi (or Lo, if necessary), on fire roads and trails rather than leave it in AWD. According to the senior tech who's wheeled Monteros (with AWD) for years and years, it takes stress off the coupling. Made sense to me given how the AWD portion functions. You don't want a lot of slipping going on because that creates heat and that's a bad, bad thing in viscous couplings.

What's the recommendation for how often tires should be rotated on the AWD Sport? Also, the t-case actually locks when you put it in 4-Lo, correct? Or is the center diff still in operation?

I'm not sure what the recommendation is. My big Sport is my DD and out of the 30K+ I drive a year, less than 5K a year is on the two stock Sports. I still get both rotated once a year. On my big Sport I rotate and balance the tires every four months which comes up to about every 10K. Been using 10K as my number since I started driving and its worked very well to get good, even wear all the way around.

Well, mostly its worked. I had to rotate and balance my 'Vette and 'Bird about every 5K 'cause of the slip on the rear tires every time you let off the clutch. Don't really have that problem with Sports. LOL!

Yep, correct. AWD uses a viscous coupling - much like other manufacturers. Once shifted into 4HI or 4LO, the transfer case mechanically locks the front and rear output shafts together. Which, BTW, means NO DRIVING in 4WD on pavement or hard packed non-slip surfaces. Especially not on rain slicked pavement. If you're familiar with ARB differential air lockers, the principal is the same. In AWD the front and rear are allowed to slip, but when locked the front and rear output act as a unit so output to both front and rear are 100% no matter what.

Thanks again for all the info! Good to know that buying a Montero Sport came with a good enthusiast community to be a part of!

No worries. Glad to help.

Well, a SMALL community I'd say. There aren't as many of us - not that there were a lot even 15 years ago - but there's a lot of stored up knowledge. I bought my first in '98 and its gone through a LOT of revisions (waiting now for a new Dynatrac 44 axle to come in for Moab next spring) and been through almost anything you can imagine for almost 600K miles now. I've driven at least one of every Sport up to '03 except the 2.4L and own three. Lost the '99 Limited in my divorce or I'd probably have 4 now. And, I practically live at our local Mitsu dealership and talk to the techs all the time. Like we've discussed on the Wire. There aren't many of us, but we tend to be fanatics. LOL!! I guess you have to have some kind of hobby.

Edward

[hove102]

Dude, you're the man. I can't thank you enough for answering all my questions so thoroughly. I feel like I'm actually getting a lot out of being on a forum for once...what a concept. Just a couple more questions though!

1) How fast do the Yoko Geolandars wear? I know you said you don't drive your '03 AWD a lot, but I'm just curious as to what kind of wear you are getting.
2) Have you had to replace any of the transfer case shifters on your Sports? I know they're a wear part and they tend to crumble and fall into one's transfer case, so since mine is a bit wigglier than it probably should be, I'm doing some pre-emptive research into replacing mine. Can you use the assembly from a full-size Montero or would I be better suited just sticking with a Sport unit?
3) What kind of fuel mileage do you get out of your stock Sports? I haven't finished a full tank yet, and this current one is going to be crappy since it was all short distances, but I'm curious (again) as to what to expect since the EPA estimates tend to be a bit optimistic.

And yeah...that's about it for now. Good notes about the t-case and its function too. I wasn't sure how the Mitsu AWD worked so now I feel a lot better about my choice. I test drove a Jeep Grand Cherokee with the V8 and Quadra-Trac (Jeep's AWD), and the VC in the transfer case was shot, as those tend to be. It was like driving a truck with front and rear lockers! It would hop in tight corners because of the driveline binding so hard. The Jeep t-case doesn't lock in 4-Lo in certain Grand Cherokees, so once again, I feel I made the smart choice in buying the Sport! I never thought I'd own a Mitsubishi, but I'm glad I gave them a look.

EDIT: I went and looked into the t-case ball replacement. It sounds like mine will need that sooner rather than later. I'll have to find a replacement for that at some point. Looks like I'll just have to be really careful if I engage 4WD before I replace it.

[colted]

That's how helpful Edward in this forum of ours is! he's a real gem on this forum, most of the time I'm the one feeling more shameful of asking him Q's since he goes a lengthy way of explaining to help you out in any way he can.

[ES_97Sport]

Dec 13, 2014 3:32:39 GMT -5 hove102 said:

Dude, you're the man. I can't thank you enough for answering all my questions so thoroughly. I feel like I'm actually getting a lot out of being on a forum for once...what a concept. ...

No worries! I hang on Pirate a lot - very high-end tech for the most part. For me its not a big deal that they don't explain in detail - if they explain at all - because I have the background. But, I know its frustrating for a lot of newbs who try to ask questions. This isn't Pirate. I know that 99% of the people that show up here don't have three degrees in engineering so I try to explain as clearly as possible.

But, its good to hear you're getting something out of it.

1) How fast do the Yoko Geolandars wear? I know you said you don't drive your '03 AWD a lot, but I'm just curious as to what kind of wear you are getting.

You're timing is good. I was just checking this earlier this week 'cause I wanted to get them re-shoed before spring if necessary. The A/T+s wear pretty well. I have about 20K (and change) on my little '97 and they look like they're brand new. My '97 is hard on rear tires because of the psycho-insane stiff '90s rear end, but all four still have barely any noticeable wear. The '03 has close to 30K (they've been on for a year and a half longer than the '97) and they're down to about 1/2. Maybe just a tad less - like 2/5s. AWD is hard on tires. ALL AWDs, not just Mitsu. I have a friend who traded in a beautiful Talon AWD for a '98 LS Sport and she used to go through tires like water. Just the way it is with AWD unfortunately.

If I remember correctly the A/T was rated at 40K expected life. That's ABOUT what I saw on my friends '98. I THINK the A/T+ is about 45-50K. I'm not sure that's realistic as the + seems to be just as sticky as the old A/T (no +). But, I may be wrong. At this point, I expect to hit at least 45K on my '97, but its looking more like 40K on my '03.

Its kinda hard for me to give concrete numbers, because I don't wear them down to the bars. My place is at 7000 ft in CO and back in a ways on dirt (with hills). Its not unusual to get 2-3 ft of snow in a day or two and CDOT isn't known for its effectiveness in more than 6". Anyway, I don't wear even my M/Ts down below about 1/4". Kinda sucks with my M/Ts 'cause when you get down to about 1/4" they get REALLY, REALLY sticky which makes them a lot of fun on the rock but not so much in the snow and slush.

2) Have you had to replace any of the transfer case shifters on your Sports? I know they're a wear part and they tend to crumble and fall into one's transfer case, so since mine is a bit wigglier than it probably should be, I'm doing some pre-emptive research into replacing mine. Can you use the assembly from a full-size Montero or would I be better suited just sticking with a Sport unit?

Several times. Both my '97s are 5-speed M/Ts so I've had to replace both the transmission and transfer case shifters 4-5 times.

Not sure. I've never tried. The problem part is the bushing so buying used never seemed like such a good idea for me. Especially considering how much mileage I put on. I've lost both the t-case and transmission shifters (on separate occasions) out in Moab. There is NOTHING more sucky than having something stupid like that break in the middle of nowhere on vacation. It doesn't disable the vehicle exactly but it makes it REALLY hard to drive - especially if its the transmission - and really irritating. My X ragged me about the transmission shifter for a year afterwards.

There is a thread on here and on 4x4 Wire about replacing the bushing without replacing the entire assembly. A new entire shifter is EXPENSIVE. Check the threads. I didn't follow those too closely so I don't know where everyone ended up with that.

Yep. Figures. The nit-wits at the Jeep dealership broke the ball on my '03 so I had to replace it when I bought the vehicle. The transmission shifter ball on my '97 was cracked when I bought that one so it got replaced. I got rid of the t-case shifter on my big Sport by replacing the t-case with a pair of Jeep NP231s and cable shifters and I'm not abusive with the tranny shifter so it's been lasting good. But, yep, it sounds like you need to check that.

BTW, you need to check the boot for cracks and oil soak. Forgot that one. This is important. No one ever pays attention and they don't last forever. If you get cracks in it, that allows crud into the t-case. Very, very bad thing. You can buy the boots from Mitsu for a couple bucks. They're not expensive. I don't know how to put them on. I know how the FSM says to do it, but I never had any luck myself. I had the senior tech replace mine the last go around and it took him about 15 minutes apiece. Secret Mitsu boot changing technique. But, I see about 60-70K maybe out of those boots so put that on your list of things to check once a year and probably replace when its timing belt time.

Talk to the guys on 4x4 Wire about the Montero shifter swap thing. They'll know if anyone does.

3) What kind of fuel mileage do you get out of your stock Sports? I haven't finished a full tank yet, and this current one is going to be crappy since it was all short distances, but I'm curious (again) as to what to expect since the EPA estimates tend to be a bit optimistic.

About 18.5-19 on my '03 and about 19-20 on my '97. My '97 has a winch and ARB bull bar. My driving is almost exactly 50/50 highway and in-town stop-and-go. No, the estimated isn't far off. My big '97 actually did better than estimated when it was stock. Keep in mind that since these were new, gas formulations have changed and now most everyone has 100K+ miles of wear and tear on their vehicles. Also keep in mind that except for my big Sport, 99.9% of my driving is done at 5500-7000 ft altitude - these are better at sea level. My big Sport picks up about 2 MPG going from here to 4000 ft in Moab - even counting in wheeling.

You can't do the locking hubs unfortunately, but change to full synthetic in the diffs, t-case and engine. That will help a good bit, especially in cold climates.

And yeah...that's about it for now. Good notes about the t-case and its function too. I wasn't sure how the Mitsu AWD worked so now I feel a lot better about my choice. I test drove a Jeep Grand Cherokee with the V8 and Quadra-Trac (Jeep's AWD), and the VC in the transfer case was shot, as those tend to be. It was like driving a truck with front and rear lockers! It would hop in tight corners because of the driveline binding so hard. The Jeep t-case doesn't lock in 4-Lo in certain Grand Cherokees, so once again, I feel I made the smart choice in buying the Sport! I never thought I'd own a Mitsubishi, but I'm glad I gave them a look.

Ouch! Yea, and I know how much they want to fix those, too.

Yep. The NP231 and 242 are the only ones I mess with. The NP231, of course, isn't AWD, which is good for me.

My friend with the '98 and I were up in the hills years ago just after I bought my first Sport hanging out along side a lake and I was explaining out t-cases worked. Someone must have thought I needed a visual aid 'case a couple kids showed up in an old Toy about as I was finishing explaining why you wanted a locking t-case. The lake was low, so they drove down to the water, along the shore a bit, then turned to drive back out up this steep gravely embankment. We were standing about 20' away broad side them so we had a good view. They started up the embankment, slipped, backed down and put it in 4WD and then tried it again. Several times. Every time they got about half way up one end would spin and then the other would just stop. Don't think they liked being used as a prop, but it was pretty educational.

EDIT: I went and looked into the t-case ball replacement. It sounds like mine will need that sooner rather than later. I'll have to find a replacement for that at some point. Looks like I'll just have to be really careful if I engage 4WD before I replace it.

Yea, be REAL careful. That can be a real PITA to get it back out if that ball breaks.

Edward