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Post by ES_97Sport on Jan 3, 2014 18:44:25 GMT -5
... Here's the setup. 0 gauge ready for the HO alternator so this post will come in handy. You see i had to rig it with the spacer as well. Yep, I used a piece of 1"x2". Ghetto but it works. So, in my endless quest to get the $#K@ electrical system in my big '97 to behave itself, I was speaking to the senior tech at the dealership. Guys been working on Mitsus since the beginning of the '90s. Apparently, the stock negative battery cable has an issue. On the Sports, it bolts to the engine block, then to the driver side frame rail and then goes to the battery negative post. The flag lug in the middle that connects to the frame isn't soldered. Its just a crimp-on where the insulation was striped off. Because of the design eventual corrosion buildup between the wire and lug kills an apparently important ground point from the chassis to the battery. I know mine is shot. Too many miles with too much deicer, river crossings, road salt, etc. I'm in the process of rewiring all the accessory feeds, lockers, etc. and I haven't gotten to replacing that yet. This weekend, I hope. Sigh. Anyway, he strongly suggested a different solution than the original setup. I told him I was planning on using 4AWG with a 90 degree lug for the engine, and two 180s at the frame (couldn't find a decent flag) and another 180 at the post. All crimped and soldered and then shrink wrapped with the heavy duty wrap with the adhesive inside to seal the lugs. Seemed to think this was a lot better solution than the original negative cable. For those that make their own, I've been dealing with Tony at CE Auto Electric. The guy has been great to deal with! I really like their cable. Super flexy and extremely easy to run. Which is nice on my big Sport since most of the cable has to come out on a regular basis and it's difficult to route the stiff cable. Even 4AWG. Anyway, nice stuff. Also, if you're looking for high-temp wire cover - as you should be in the engine bay if you're doing cable - these guys have it all and it's cheaper than the speed shops. McMASTER-CARRHas anyone tried the H1 Hummer military battery terminals yet? I love the ones I have, but they won't stay on the Odyssey/Platinum battery terminals. The Odyssey terminals are tined brass and SLIGHTLY smaller than standard tin/lead terminals. Almost forgot. Those terminals that use a screw compression to attach the cable work ok on the street in mild climates but are a very poor long term solution especially in environments with deicer and/or road salt in the winter or for off road where all kinds of crud gets splashed up in the engine bay. (which is why you always shrink wrap with internal adhesive or otherwise seal or solder lugs that have been crimped on) Tried a set like yours for a couple winters in CO - didn't work out so good. Edward
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Post by bdmontero on Jan 3, 2014 19:02:15 GMT -5
Ya my wife told me I was banned from mcmaster-carr awhile back. I was buying all kinds of stuff. Look at the blue shrink tubing they have. Good stuff!!!! Good luck Ed on your endeavor!
Sent from my SM-N900V using proboards
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Post by jkdv8 on Jan 3, 2014 21:06:07 GMT -5
... Here's the setup. 0 gauge ready for the HO alternator so this post will come in handy. You see i had to rig it with the spacer as well. Yep, I used a piece of 1"x2". Ghetto but it works. So, in my endless quest to get the $#K@ electrical system in my big '97 to behave itself, I was speaking to the senior tech at the dealership. Guys been working on Mitsus since the beginning of the '90s. Apparently, the stock negative battery cable has an issue. On the Sports, it bolts to the engine block, then to the driver side frame rail and then goes to the battery negative post. The flag lug in the middle that connects to the frame isn't soldered. Its just a crimp-on where the insulation was striped off. Because of the design eventual corrosion buildup between the wire and lug kills an apparently important ground point from the chassis to the battery. I know mine is shot. Too many miles with too much deicer, river crossings, road salt, etc. I'm in the process of rewiring all the accessory feeds, lockers, etc. and I haven't gotten to replacing that yet. This weekend, I hope. Sigh. Anyway, he strongly suggested a different solution than the original setup. I told him I was planning on using 4AWG with a 90 degree lug for the engine, and two 180s at the frame (couldn't find a decent flag) and another 180 at the post. All crimped and soldered and then shrink wrapped with the heavy duty wrap with the adhesive inside to seal the lugs. Seemed to think this was a lot better solution than the original negative cable. For those that make their own, I've been dealing with Tony at CE Auto Electric. The guy has been great to deal with! I really like their cable. Super flexy and extremely easy to run. Which is nice on my big Sport since most of the cable has to come out on a regular basis and it's difficult to route the stiff cable. Even 4AWG. Anyway, nice stuff. Also, if you're looking for high-temp wire cover - as you should be in the engine bay if you're doing cable - these guys have it all and it's cheaper than the speed shops. McMASTER-CARRHas anyone tried the H1 Hummer military battery terminals yet? I love the ones I have, but they won't stay on the Odyssey/Platinum battery terminals. The Odyssey terminals are tined brass and SLIGHTLY smaller than standard tin/lead terminals. Almost forgot. Those terminals that use a screw compression to attach the cable work ok on the street in mild climates but are a very poor long term solution especially in environments with deicer and/or road salt in the winter or for off road where all kinds of crud gets splashed up in the engine bay. (which is why you always shrink wrap with internal adhesive or otherwise seal or solder lugs that have been crimped on) Tried a set like yours for a couple winters in CO - didn't work out so good. Edward Preciate the heads up ES. Been wondering about that myself. I tightened the ${}!? out of them though. Been watching them closely, first thought was "if those set screws fall out... Would suck big time". First really cold snap we've had this year. Kinda waiting to run the 0 cable then was gonna thread lock the screws on the mains at least and do plasti dip or the like on the terminals. Found some high temp tubing at orielly's for the run across the engine to the alt but will definitely look at McMaster's. Been having a hard time finding heat shrink tubing though that will fit over the wire and lugs I got. Knuconcepts flex cable supposed to be very flexible. Was gonna do a 0 gauge run of that for the amp. Found some tsunami OFC on amazon for cheap for the big 3. It's rather flexible for being the diameter of a water hose. Just curious whether to run the battery neg to the chassis, frame, or engine block. Don't believe I have enough to run it next to the factory wire. Have to cut a foot or so off for the engine to chassis. Sorry to high jack the thread OP but, it's somewhat related.
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Post by ES_97Sport on Jan 6, 2014 13:59:16 GMT -5
Ya my wife told me I was banned from mcmaster-carr awhile back. I was buying all kinds of stuff. Look at the blue shrink tubing they have. Good stuff!!!! Good luck Ed on your endeavor! Sent from my SM-N900V using proboards LOL!!! Yea, candy store for adult males. Beyond luck, I think I need a young priest and and an old priest. LOL!!! Edward
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Post by ES_97Sport on Jan 6, 2014 14:46:12 GMT -5
... Preciate the heads up ES. Been wondering about that myself. I tightened the ${}!? out of them though. Been watching them closely, first thought was "if those set screws fall out... Would suck big time". First really cold snap we've had this year. Kinda waiting to run the 0 cable then was gonna thread lock the screws on the mains at least and do plasti dip or the like on the terminals. No worries. I never had problem with the screws loosening up. The problem was oxidation - which no amount of tightening up will prevent. The screw attachment just isn't a very good design idea for stranded wire. At least in states that use deicer. CDOT has a hell of a time keeping the electrical on their trucks working. That deicer is like penetrating oil. If it can get in ANYWHERE it'll migrate right up the wire inside the insulation. Hate that crap. The plasti-dip might work. Makes it hard to undo anything, though. Amazon has the ultra heavy duty shrink wrap with adhesive. Stuff is God awful expensive IMHO, but given how hard to trace and how expensive electrical problems are to fix I guess its insurance. I picked up two packs week before last for $24 a pack - 5 12" black and 5 12" red. Its a bit much, but since I have 6 lugs for the alternator to battery + 6 for the accessory box + 4 for the negative stock cable and one on the stock positive - at least I won't run out and it's enough (i think) to do my little '97, too. Ancor 306124 Marine Grade Electrical Adhesive Lined Heat Shrink Tubing (3/4-Inch Diameter, 12-Inches Long, Black, 4-Pack) For the alternator aux leads, you want at least 4AWG which is plenty for a 150 amp alternator on our vehicles given the length of the run. I stuck with 4 AWG since I only need an absolute max of 120-130 amps. 2 or 0 certainly won't hurt anything, though. You want to run the positive from the alternator to a nnn amp slow blow fuse located as close to the battery as practical. Given the minimal amount of space in our engine bays next to the battery - especially with the Group 65, I chose this for the fuse holder - "Littelfuse 298900 Automotive Single Terminal Fuse Holder" with a 150 amp slow blow fuse. I have the same for my accessory block with a 125 amp slow blow. The fuse should be a bit more than the maximum you will draw, NOT the maximum capability of the alternator. In my case 125 is too low for the alternator main feed so 150 was the next choice up. That its a 150 amp alternator is just a coincidence in my case. So, if you're pulling 150 amps, with a 250 amp alternator, 175 or 200 would be appropriate. KIM, that this is for a slow blow fuse. The point of a slow blow is that they will absorb a brief peak above their rating without blowing - so unlike a fast blow, you don't have to oversize the fuse for that freak amplifier peak that happens twice a year for 2 seconds. The bad part about slow blow fuses, however, is that an intermittent short may not blow the fuse - which can be a very bad thing. Which is why you absolutely have to protect your cabling. The negative should attach to the alternator case - which isn't very practical on ours - or to the lower alternator mount bolt. I don't like using the upper (long) bolt because there's too much likelihood of not getting a good ground connection there. That's just a 'pinch' connection - if you get grease, deicer, crud, whatever in between you'll have ground problems. Make sure the bolt, and face that the lug sets against is clean - no oil, grease, etc. Run the negative back to the battery negative terminal. I usually use a little brake cleaner to wipe it off before bolting everything together. Electricity takes the path of least resistance, so if there's more on the new cables than the stock cable - the path is the stock cable. The whole point is to give the electricity a better path so you can't run it to the engine, frame, etc. It has to go directly to the negative terminal of the battery. Just like the positive cable to the positive terminal. Make sure that you protect those wires, 'cause even with a fuse, if either cable shorts you'll loose the alternator and quite likely the ECM/PCM. I used the high temp, abrasion resistant woven cover all the way from the alternator to the first of the hard mount points on the radiator support - and glad I did. I had a zip tie come loose on vacation and didn't realize it. By the time we got back the cable had just wore through the cover on the edge of the fender well. If I hadn't had the cover, it would have certainly shorted out and fried God only knows what. It doesn't take much. Even 4AWG has some weight to it and will flop around quite a bit. This is a do as I say, not as I do moment. I used the bare copper lugs instead of the tined lugs. BAD, BAD plan. The bare copper lugs oxidize quickly. I was testing two months ago and noticed that I'm getting resistance between the lug and connection - which is exactly what you DO NOT want - on my alternator connections but NOT on the winch connections. The winch lugs are tined and 15 years old and have never been cleaned but the others are less than 5 years old and have been cleaned several times. I know better than to do this, but .... :rolleyes: This go around I'm using the marine heavy duty tined lugs. I think the OP is getting more than he every thought he would out of this thread. Edward
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Post by jkdv8 on Jan 7, 2014 23:12:14 GMT -5
Why yes. This had turned into an info filled thread hasn't it. Oxidation shouldn't be much of a problem here but, reason I went with the gold plating on the terminals and lugs. Seldomly snows so no road salt but, didn't want to take the chance like you said. Thinking about that flex seal stuff to and that amazon heat shrink and I have plenty of cable ties. When you speak of woven cover material referring to braided fuel line? Not a bad idea. Would look a lot better to.
Definitely don't have enough to run a neg to the alt case. Been trying to think of a way to connect it in that fashion. Was hoping I could attach it to or to something on the block. Still going to ohm it out before I make a final connection but just brainstorming. Could just shade tree mechanic it. Scrap the paint off the fender right there at the battery. Drill it. Bolt it up. Then just remove the factory neg cable. Was gonna do that to begin with but the positive goes from the battery to the the starter and the alt and looks as if it branches off to somewhere else so was just gonna leave the factory cables. Good point though.
With the alternator I was thinking about a 150-175, 180 amp. Think the fuse I got is a 200 amp anl. Not a slow blow fuse though. That would offset what the amp consumes. Not doing any SPL comps or anything. Besides didn't want performance or gas mileage to suffer with some 300 amp monster.
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Post by ES_97Sport on Jan 8, 2014 15:46:32 GMT -5
Why yes. This had turned into an info filled thread hasn't it. Yep!
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Post by ES_97Sport on Feb 3, 2014 12:56:52 GMT -5
Update on the alternator ... So, I originally installed it with my smaller than stock pulley, but not as small as the one that came on the alternator. They say that you probably will need a shorter belt but they weren't sure for the Sport application and I figured I'd try it. The stock belt was just a bit too long. I stopped by Napa and picked up their highest quality belt 1.5" shorter than the stock belt and that worked out fine. So far the new setup is working out great! The new alternator comes with a 6 grove pulley, instead of our 5 grove. They claim it will work fine. I checked and everything lines up fine and it seems to be working. I'll keep eye on it but I can't see that it will do anything bad unless you don't tighten up the belt per manufacturer's spec. Edward
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Post by davidtemple on May 3, 2014 17:14:08 GMT -5
Sears Platinum AGM (relabeled Odyssey)
best battery and 5 year warranty, trust me I own a car audio shop and sell batteries from XS Power and Kinetik
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Post by ES_97Sport on May 6, 2014 13:16:51 GMT -5
Sears Platinum AGM (relabeled Odyssey) best battery and 5 year warranty, trust me I own a car audio shop and sell batteries from XS Power and Kinetik Yep, they rock. I finally had to replace my group 65 in my big '97 Sport. After 5-6 years of abuse, it finally gave out. I lost an alternator coming off of Hwy 128 into Moab, UT, not too long after I bought my first Platinum. No shops open at 6:00 PM - not that any of them would have a Mitsu alternator anyway. Had to drive from Moab to Green River, stay the night in a hotel, then drive to Grand Junction, CO, the next day to get a new alternator. Did that running 80/100 lights to Green River and Contour electric fans in 80+ degree weather the entire way. Swapped the new alternator in in the middle of the Autozone parking lot. Started right back up with no problems. The Odyssey batteries are expensive (the re-badged Sears less so), but they're incredibly durable batteries. Edward
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