High Output (HO) Alernator Info
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Post by jkdv8 on Sept 28, 2014 19:03:54 GMT -5
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Post by ES_97Sport on Sept 30, 2014 14:42:39 GMT -5
Well I got the heat shield/wrap on it. Also thought I would throw in an Istupid reference. It made me laugh about that other post that mentioned it. This came up when I opened the camera to take a picture. .... Nice! I just bought some of the silver stuff for my air line from my air storage tank under the rear to the compressor in the engine bay. Got tired of the nit-wit exhaust guys torching the line every time they replaced a CAT or muffler. :rolleyes: Edward
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Post by ES_97Sport on Sept 30, 2014 16:26:18 GMT -5
Sounds like our sports are pretty anemic in the electrical system. Sounds like a good deal all around, just curious about overkill. I've had problems with vehicles before that had a blown voltage regulator and overcharge the battery and destroy it. ... Yea. I don't understand the reasoning behind it. I've been over and over this with the techs and others. No one seems to have a plausible reason for this. Why they couldn't put in something like a 110/120 amp or pull up the amperage lower down with a slightly smaller pulley I don't know. It doesn't take much with the stock alternator. I used my smaller Mr Alternator pulley from my old original HO alternator on a stock Mitsu alternator and that pretty much took care of the low end lack of power for a stock vehicle. The pulley wasn't THAT much smaller than stock .... There is no such thing a 'overkill' with a correctly functioning system. That said, you are correct, if the voltage regulator goes south the battery will over charge (trashing the battery). But, the 'size' - max amperage rating - of the alternator is for the most part irrelevant. A battery can only draw so much, so fast. So, in theory, if the battery can draw more than the stock alternator, the HO alternator could supply it. But, all that means is you'd trash the battery slightly faster. It really doesn't matter 'cause you'll have a trashed battery either way. Remember, electricity is not a pressure system like the water system in your house. The battery DRAWS electricity from the alternator. The alternator doesn't pump the electricity into the battery. The purpose of the voltage regulator is to keep track of the voltage and turn on or off the alternator appropriately. I know this sounds kinda strange, but batteries over charge themselves. It isn't really the alternator. When the voltage regulator goes out and allows 'overcharging' what's happening is the battery keeps drawing electricity from the alternator because the voltage regulator isn't there to tell everything 'ok, that's enough'. That is the second function of a voltage regulator - to control the rate at which the battery can draw electricity from the alternator. Different battery types have different maximum charging rates. For example, AGM 'dry cell' batteries can be charged at a higher rate than a standard automotive 'wet cell' battery without damage. That's why you can put an AGM battery in a 'wet cell' charging system, but not the other way around. This is also why AGM batteries 'charge faster' or 'accept a charge faster' than 'wet cell' batteries. Really, no matter what the charging system, a blown regulator allowing unlimited draw by the battery(ies) will toast a battery(ies) - no matter what the battery is. The more electricity the alternator produces for the battery to draw will accelerate the process so your theory is correct. IMHO, the difference is negligible. I've had stock alternators go out and fry stock batteries and I've had HO alternators go out and fry AGMs - and a bunch of combinations of varying alternator amperages and varying batteries in different make and model vehicles. Oh, and with broken/defective wall chargers. Truthfully, I've never really seen a big difference in the amount of time it takes to toast a battery. I think this is a case where preventive maintenance and paying attention to your vehicle is the key. I certinly wouldn't consider running a smaller (or undersized in our cases) alternator to try to possibly save a battery some day. Even a $250 Odyssey/DieHard Platinum like I run. This is a MAJOR pet peeve of mine with Mitsu. The '97-'99 was available with a dash pod of gauges - one of which was a voltage gauge. In '00 that option was dropped and along with oil pressure and water temperature, I think the voltage gauge is one of the most important gauges to have. (my next favorite is an amp gauge) If you're truly worried, and I think your concern is valid, I strongly recommend installing a voltage gauge. Its a great tool for monitoring the charging system and a working charging system is kind of an important thing to have when you're out in the middle of BFE Nowhere. There are a bunch of companies that make voltage gauges - you're not stuck with the giant Autometer ones like we used to be. I found several tiny digital ones this spring that would be easy to mount and take up almost no space. If you're really, really paranoid, there are companies that make voltage regulators for battery systems that can cut off charging from the alternator that are completely separate from the vehicle's own regulation. So, in theory, if the vehicle's regulator goes, this system will prevent the battery from going nuts and burning itself out. Personally, I think this is getting out of control unless you have a camper, boat, commercial vehicle or something. Adding additional points of failure is just as big a problem as loosing the voltage regulator. Edward
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Post by bdmontero on Sept 30, 2014 20:23:37 GMT -5
Yep the pods are awesome! Except when the compass goes a wry and blanks out. I occasionally have to...b**** slap it and it bends to my whim and returns to normal operation;D
Sent from my SM-N900V using proboards
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Post by ES_97Sport on Oct 1, 2014 12:20:01 GMT -5
Yep the pods are awesome! Except when the compass goes a wry and blanks out. I occasionally have to...b**** slap it and it bends to my whim and returns to normal operation;D What the hell is up with that?! I have the same problem on my big Sport and have that problem for 10 years. Techs have had it off half a dozen times and no one seems to know what's going on. REALLY irritating! Edward
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Post by jkdv8 on Oct 1, 2014 12:35:19 GMT -5
Well I got the heat shield/wrap on it. Also thought I would throw in an Istupid reference. It made me laugh about that other post that mentioned it. This came up when I opened the camera to take a picture. .... Nice! I just bought some of the silver stuff for my air line from my air storage tank under the rear to the compressor in the engine bay. Got tired of the nit-wit exhaust guys torching the line every time they replaced a CAT or muffler. :rolleyes: Edward Well that sucks . Have them weld an exhaust heat shield there to protect it next time they're under there . This stuff gets the job done however, don't much care for the aluminum foil look. Doesn't blend with the rest of the engine which is in need of a real good cleaning . I wish they would of kept the pods in the 00 and up. I wouldn't mind having one.
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Post by ES_97Sport on Oct 1, 2014 15:08:21 GMT -5
Nice! I just bought some of the silver stuff for my air line from my air storage tank under the rear to the compressor in the engine bay. Got tired of the nit-wit exhaust guys torching the line every time they replaced a CAT or muffler. :rolleyes: Edward Well that sucks . Have them weld an exhaust heat shield there to protect it next time they're under there . This stuff gets the job done however, don't much care for the aluminum foil look. Doesn't blend with the rest of the engine which is in need of a real good cleaning . I wish they would of kept the pods in the 00 and up. I wouldn't mind having one. OH, no! If I tried to get them to do that, they'd burn the entire truck down! I'm surprised someone hasn't managed to torch the fuel harness running along the frame there. I don't know why this is so complicated - its not like its hidden or hard to see. Sigh. I don't mind. Rather it worked than just looked good but didn't work. Not an issue for me since its on top of the frame rail under the vehicle. I don't know how well it'll hold up though. This stuff really isn't meant to withstand the crud that's going to get thrown at it when winter comes. Guess I'll see how it goes. But, I have to do something. I hate getting on the trail, flipping on the compressor and 10 minutes latter hearing the line go. Yea, I REALLY wish they hadn't stopped that option. I really miss the pod in my '03. Edward
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Post by jkdv8 on Oct 2, 2014 17:37:33 GMT -5
Lol. Well that's not funny but it is. I could see that being very frustrating. Could you run it through the frame rail. I noticed when looking for ground points there are places here and there with holes. There is one there at the driver side front tire.
Is it feasible to add the cluster to the 00 and up. Suppose you would need the harness as well as the cluster but... Possible? See them on eBay all the time.
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Post by ES_97Sport on Oct 2, 2014 18:12:51 GMT -5
Lol. Well that's not funny but it is. I could see that being very frustrating. Could you run it through the frame rail. I noticed when looking for ground points there are places here and there with holes. There is one there at the driver side front tire. Is it feasible to add the cluster to the 00 and up. Suppose you would need the harness as well as the cluster but... Possible? See them on eBay all the time. LOL! Yea, know what you mean. I thought about that and it might be possible. The tube is nylon 1/4" but it is SO stiff that it might be more of a pain than its worth. It would get it past the 'trouble' spot, but .... The only problem is that I keep splice fittings in case the hose does burst for some reason and once its in the frame ... it takes me about 10-15 minutes to fix it now on the trail. It'd be a real pain if it broke inside the frame. Yea, I bought one a couple months ago so I'd have a spare. I don't think Mitsu sells that anymore. Guy had it advertised for a 'Montero' along with another one actually for a Montero. eBay sellers. :rolleyes: They don't even look vaguely similar. He even had the P/N which SAID 'Montero Sport, '97-'99' if he'd bothered even slightly to do a search. Sigh. Good for me, though, as the actual 'Montero Sport' listings were more expensive. I THINK you might be able to. I looked up the wiring for the pod a couple months ago for fun. There isn't anything earth shattering there. It shouldn't be any more complicated than wiring in the equivalent after market gauges for voltage and oil pressure. You'd need the oil pressure sender, but all Mitsu blocks have the port as I understand things. The ambient temp would run to an external sensor that is already present for in-rear view mirror gauge and I THINK its the same type sensor. Depending on the type of sensor - and I don't know which one we use - you may or may not be able to just wire it into the existing sensor wiring. If its a resistance type then no, you can't, but if its a voltage type then you could. But worst case you can buy the sensor, bolt it in and then run your own wiring. The compass just requires power as there is no remote 'sensor'. You'd have two, but I expect that wouldn't hurt anyone's feelings. Besides, the one in the mirror is kind of a POS anyway. Mounting it to the dash might be entertaining, but I don't see it as being impossible. I'd make absolutely sure to use the Sport pod, though. The Montero pod seems to have issues, especially with the compass. Edward
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Post by jkdv8 on Oct 2, 2014 18:37:00 GMT -5
Lol. Well that's not funny but it is. I could see that being very frustrating. Could you run it through the frame rail. I noticed when looking for ground points there are places here and there with holes. There is one there at the driver side front tire. Is it feasible to add the cluster to the 00 and up. Suppose you would need the harness as well as the cluster but... Possible? See them on eBay all the time. LOL! Yea, know what you mean. I thought about that and it might be possible. The tube is nylon 1/4" but it is SO stiff that it might be more of a pain than its worth. It would get it past the 'trouble' spot, but .... The only problem is that I keep splice fittings in case the hose does burst for some reason and once its in the frame ... it takes me about 10-15 minutes to fix it now on the trail. It'd be a real pain if it broke inside the frame. Yea, I bought one a couple months ago so I'd have a spare. I don't think Mitsu sells that anymore. Guy had it advertised for a 'Montero' along with another one actually for a Montero. eBay sellers. :rolleyes: They don't even look vaguely similar. He even had the P/N which SAID 'Montero Sport, '97-'99' if he'd bothered even slightly to do a search. Sigh. Good for me, though, as the actual 'Montero Sport' listings were more expensive. I THINK you might be able to. I looked up the wiring for the pod a couple months ago for fun. There isn't anything earth shattering there. It shouldn't be any more complicated than wiring in the equivalent after market gauges for voltage and oil pressure. You'd need the oil pressure sender, but all Mitsu blocks have the port as I understand things. The ambient temp would run to an external sensor that is already present for in-rear view mirror gauge and I THINK its the same type sensor. Depending on the type of sensor - and I don't know which one we use - you may or may not be able to just wire it into the existing sensor wiring. If its a resistance type then no, you can't, but if its a voltage type then you could. But worst case you can buy the sensor, bolt it in and then run your own wiring. The compass just requires power as there is no remote 'sensor'. You'd have two, but I expect that wouldn't hurt anyone's feelings. Besides, the one in the mirror is kind of a POS anyway. Mounting it to the dash might be entertaining, but I don't see it as being impossible. I'd make absolutely sure to use the Sport pod, though. The Montero pod seems to have issues, especially with the compass. Edward Hmm. Might be worth looking into when I get some spare change. lol the mirror compass does act funny sometimes. Wondering if needs to be recalibrated when the battery is disconnected for extended periods of time. Saw something in the owners/service manual about driving in a circle and doing this and/or that. I would be happy with just the voltage gauge however. Using one now that plugs in the cig lighter socket. Don't think it's very accurate at times. Mounting it would be the trickiest part and having it look factory. I would think it would just screw in with a bracket for support then just a hole for the wires to pass through. Or maybe in the pocket under the radio or the a-pillar.
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Post by ES_97Sport on Oct 3, 2014 13:52:56 GMT -5
... Hmm. Might be worth looking into when I get some spare change. lol the mirror compass does act funny sometimes. Wondering if needs to be recalibrated when the battery is disconnected for extended periods of time. Saw something in the owners/service manual about driving in a circle and doing this and/or that. I would be happy with just the voltage gauge however. Using one now that plugs in the cig lighter socket. Don't think it's very accurate at times. Mounting it would be the trickiest part and having it look factory. I would think it would just screw in with a bracket for support then just a hole for the wires to pass through. Or maybe in the pocket under the radio or the a-pillar. Yea. The problem with the '00-'05 is its graduated in 1/4s. So, N, NE, E, SE, S, and so on. That's not too helpful as a 1/4 contains an awful lot of degrees. Yea, you're supposed to hit the set button, then drive in a 360 degree circle to set the compass. Done that a lot of times in 16-17 years. I don't really know how the pod mounts. I've never paid too much attention. Might have to take a look at my spare this weekend. I think there's a bracket that attaches under the dash cover. All the '97-'99s should have the mounts for that, but I'd guess the '00-'05s don't. If I have time this weekend I'll take a look at the service manuals and see what the entire assembly looks like. ?? What is it doing? Unless there's something a little flaky with your wiring I would think that should be reasonably accurate. Edward
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Post by jkdv8 on Oct 3, 2014 16:10:46 GMT -5
Yea ok thats it. Have to try and reset it.
If you don't mind looking at the manual and the bracket. No rush though, more than likely would have to wait til after the holidays... or next spring when it warms up.
As for the meter I'm not sure. Sometimes it reads right and sometimes it reads .2-.3 of a volt off. The difference in a fully charged battery and one that's at 70-80%. When I did the alt I charged the battery before putting it back in. Battery read 12.87 and the meter read 12.6. Granted you have to have the key on for the cig lighter socket to work, even then if I test at the battery or the amp hook ups, the multimeter I have reads higher. So I don't know.
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Post by jay4x4 on Oct 4, 2014 0:03:04 GMT -5
I wish I had those gauges..looking into a aftermarket set up..I found a voltage gauge to be one of the best things to have, in my old audi it had a oil temp and voltage gauge stock. Saved me one day when I noticed my alternator must have gone out...really useful seeing as you can usually run your car for a while on just your battery...take a road trip only to get stuck...As for the alternator, sounds like I am over thinking things. Need to add that to my list of things. I am planning on wiring some inverters in the sport.
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Post by ES_97Sport on Oct 6, 2014 11:59:02 GMT -5
Yea ok thats it. Have to try and reset it. If you don't mind looking at the manual and the bracket. No rush though, more than likely would have to wait til after the holidays... or next spring when it warms up. As for the meter I'm not sure. Sometimes it reads right and sometimes it reads .2-.3 of a volt off. The difference in a fully charged battery and one that's at 70-80%. When I did the alt I charged the battery before putting it back in. Battery read 12.87 and the meter read 12.6. Granted you have to have the key on for the cig lighter socket to work, even then if I test at the battery or the amp hook ups, the multimeter I have reads higher. So I don't know. Will do. I completely zoned it this weekend. I've spent so much time the last couple months on the big Sport I didn't even pull the rear drive shaft so I could take it down to the shop and have the slip piece replaced. Needed a car break. Mmmmm. This may or may not be something. Based on my experience with the cig socket in the dash, there might be an issue getting the exact voltage from there. I got to thinking about it and I've seem some strange behavior plugging in inverters. The only thing I ever use it for is charging my cell/tablet and running my GPS. I do remember that long ago I tried to run a battery tester from the cig socket and it wouldn't work. I thought it was the tester, but now .... The most accurate reading is directly from the battery, of course. I don't have anyone to ask anymore at the dealership or I'd run it by them. Can you pull the voltage from the ECM/PCM and see what that says? Edward
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Post by ES_97Sport on Oct 6, 2014 12:23:42 GMT -5
I wish I had those gauges..looking into a aftermarket set up..I found a voltage gauge to be one of the best things to have, in my old audi it had a oil temp and voltage gauge stock. Saved me one day when I noticed my alternator must have gone out...really useful seeing as you can usually run your car for a while on just your battery...take a road trip only to get stuck...As for the alternator, sounds like I am over thinking things. Need to add that to my list of things. I am planning on wiring some inverters in the sport. Saved my butt several times. That's the bad thing about running the big AGMs. You can run a LONG time on battery without realizing you're on straight battery, but when the battery is done, its done. I ran from Moab to Green River to Grand Junction on a Platinum II group 65 and still had enough juice to start the truck after I changed the alternator in the Autozone parking lot. Had I not had the voltage gauge I might not have been able to tell until I turned it off in the middle of nowhere and couldn't get it to start. Oh, good God! Yea, if you're going to run a decent sized inverter(s) you definitely need both the alternator and the gauge. It IS possible to run a battery down WHILE the vehicle is driving - good battery and alternator and all - and with no gauge you really have no idea you're doing it. My grandfather had one of the first electric cooler fridges to come out in the '70s. Twice we took it on vacation and dang near ended up stranded because the cooler was pulling more power than the alternator could supply and this while on the highway doing 65-70 MPH in a '76 van with NO electronics other than the ignition and in the middle of the day so no lights, either. You know, given the amount of electronics in SUV/trucks now, you'd think that a voltage gauge would be standard. Sigh. Find a good watts/amps - amps/watts converter web page and book mark it. Figure your Sport pulls about 65-70 amps total with everything turned on - so that's maximum draw. That's a good benchmark anyway. Then keep track of your inverter draw. I said somewhere above, just drop a 150/175 amp alternator and call it good, but if you're plugging in inverters that's a different ball game. My W510 Thinkpad has a 135 watt brick - that's 9.85 amps. Even my truck Thinkpad T61p is 70 watts - 5.1 amps. 200 watts is 18.25 amps and 500 watts is 36.5 amps. Stuff adds up FAST when you're talking about plugging stuff into inverters. You better start considering a second battery, too. This is the world of RVs and big boats - a whole different level of electrical systems and supply. Edward
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