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Post by ES_97Sport on Nov 10, 2015 19:11:42 GMT -5
I remember when I changed master cyl to larger bore on my harley, like I had power brakes Yea, I've been there on old Chevys. The issue with a SAS is typically the rotors and calipers on the solid axles are larger than what the Sports come with. Its not that OEM brake master cylinder is unable to supply sufficient pressure, its unable to supply sufficient volume for the larger calipers. I currently run Exploder disks in the rear and GM 1/2 ton disks in the front. The rear calipers are just a little larger than the '97 stock calipers. The front calipers are a LOT bigger than the OEM setup. So, ideally, one would want to cut the pressure to the rear and redirect that to the front (adjustable proportioning valve) and increase the volume (larger bore master cylinder) of fluid moved in the system to accommodate the larger front calipers. I LIKE my brakes the way they are now but I'm seriously tired of the whining every time someone else drive my big Sport. With the PowerSlot rotors and the Hawk green pads and the general almost 3x increase in swept area, I've got plenty enough braking to haul my big Sport down faster than even a stock Sport with the big brakes. But, like a race car, you have to know how to drive it. Its not a Civic. The other issue is whether the current setup is sufficient with 37"s. I KNOW my existing brake solution is plenty sufficient with a GM, Ford or Chrysler 1 1/8 or 1 1/4" BMC. What I DO NOT want is a system that is SO good that you can lock the brakes without actually working at it. I don't want a noob freaking out on the highway doing 70 MPH and hitting the brakes just a little too hard and locking everything up. I much prefer brakes that won't lock at all to brakes that lock if you look at the pedal funny like my mom's big block SS Nova. So, I think the 1 1/16" should be just about perfect with the 37"s. My theory is that will get me the same behavior as I have now on the big Sport. We'll see how that goes. Edward
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Post by ES_97Sport on Nov 24, 2015 20:42:48 GMT -5
Linky ... 4x4 DIY parts supplier ... Parts MikeEdward
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Post by ES_97Sport on Nov 28, 2015 17:56:09 GMT -5
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Post by pinstryper on Nov 28, 2015 19:30:10 GMT -5
Best OME/ARB prices found?
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Post by bdmontero on Nov 28, 2015 21:11:55 GMT -5
4wdparts or ironman4x4.com
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Post by ES_97Sport on Dec 4, 2015 19:42:16 GMT -5
... its unable to supply sufficient volume for the larger calipers. I currently run Exploder disks in the rear and GM 1/2 ton disks in the front. The rear calipers are just a little larger than the '97 stock calipers. The front calipers are a LOT bigger than the OEM setup. So, ideally, one would want to cut the pressure to the rear and redirect that to the front (adjustable proportioning valve) and increase the volume (larger bore master cylinder) of fluid moved in the system to accommodate the larger front calipers. .... Ok. All done. The new 1 1/16th 3000GT VR4 brake master cylinder is installed. Direct bolt-in. No modifications whatsoever were necessary. Note: the 'cup' inside the reservoir apparently is a filter. According to Mitsu anyway. Edward
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Post by pinstryper on Dec 4, 2015 22:17:17 GMT -5
So how do they feel? Burnin gas yet?
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Post by ES_97Sport on Dec 5, 2015 12:53:16 GMT -5
So how do they feel? Burnin gas yet? Absolutely perfect. I take everything I said back about people whining about my brakes. I liked them the way they were, but I LOVE the way they are now! They feel exactly the same as my stock '97 brakes. Same height, same travel. Slightly more pedal pressure needed, but with an extra 2000 lbs that's expected. Barely notable. Holding on a hill is AWESOME! Don't even have to press, just sit my foot on the pedal. THAT is way better than before! Overall, they feel like the stock Gen 1 brakes, and better than my '03. So, this is definitely the BMC for the K10 and Exploder calipers. 1997 Montero Sport OEM Brake Master Cylinder 1997 Montero Sport w/ 3000GT VR4 Brake Master Cylinder 1997 Montero Sport LS Stock & SAS Edward
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Post by ES_97Sport on Dec 5, 2015 20:10:41 GMT -5
A few last things on the brake system ... The 'cup' in the 3000GT VR4 BMC is labeled as 'filter' in the FSMs. It has a top and bottom, so it needs to be installed in the reservoir right side up. The tech pointed that out to me when I picked up the big Sport after the BMC install. Front and rear brake pressure looks good, however ... The ratio is about 60/40, rather than 70/30 F/R. Pressures were measured with the factory non-ABS 1997 proportioning valve in place. Depending on vehicle load, this may be good or bad. With 500 lbs of gear in the back, this seems to be spot on. The pressure is almost exactly what is shown in the FSMs for a 'loaded' vehicle. There will always be that much weight in the back until I convert it to strictly a DD so until that time I'll leave the stock valve in place. I would suggest installing the Wilwood 5-way adjustable proportioning valve on a vehicle that was going to be driven empty the majority of the time to get that maybe closer to about a 73/27 ratio F/R. Wilwood 260-11179 Proportioning ValveI run Powerslot rotors and Hawk 'green' pads. With the 3G BMC this combo works very, very well - for me. YMMV. IMO, as things stand now, any tweaking of the brake system is down to 'user experience'. Minor adjustments can be made in the 'feel' by changing rotors and pads to the driver's preference. The Exploder and Chevy K10 calipers and the 3G BMC are as close to a perfect match as you can get. In fact, I think any larger bore would degrade brake performance at this point. Going to larger calipers, either in the front or rear, however, is going to require more invasive changes to the brake system than just swapping in a BMC. Having not run this with 37" tires, I can't say if this system will be sufficient. I'll find out here in a few months but it looks good. For 33"s to 35"s I'd say this is perfect. I STRONGLY recommend purchasing the 3G BMC new - NOT rebuilt - manufactured by Nabco. That's the OEM manufacturer. There is definitely a big jump in quality - downwards - when you start looking at the aftermarket ones. I supplied the tech with the booster push rod adjustment tool for adjusting the Mitsu booster push rod that I bought off ebay a couple weeks ago. He was very happy as the tool made that otherwise time consuming PITA adjustment a dirt simple couple minute job. The low fluid level connector is the same on both Mitsus apparently. Nothing needed to be changed - the connector on the BMC plugged straight into the stock harness. So, there you go BD. Edward
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Post by bdmontero on Dec 5, 2015 21:29:33 GMT -5
Well...I was worried it might be too easy. ROFL. ;D ;D thanks Ed we all appreciate the feedback. As it makes our jobs easier!
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Post by ES_97Sport on Dec 6, 2015 16:57:22 GMT -5
Well...I was worried it might be too easy. ROFL. ;D ;D thanks Ed we all appreciate the feedback. As it makes our jobs easier! No worries! So was I! I was sitting at the office all Friday worried I'd overlooked something and waiting for a call saying they had to swap everything back. I'm just glad there turned out to be a simple solution. Now if it wasn't such an EXPENSIVE solution. Edward
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Post by dirk on Dec 6, 2015 18:39:40 GMT -5
That explains my brakes, I have the 15/16 BMC with the upgraded dual piston calipers. The previous owner probably didn't know any better and either put dual piston set up on or had swapped the BMC. I'm glad I have a 1 inch BMC from a limited to slap in. I'll find that adjustment tool part number. I have to also find the adapter that the mitsubishi dealerships use for balancing. Sam's Club is having a hell of a time properly balancing my tires.
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Post by ES_97Sport on Dec 6, 2015 21:17:30 GMT -5
That explains my brakes, I have the 15/16 BMC with the upgraded dual piston calipers. The previous owner probably didn't know any better and either put dual piston set up on or had swapped the BMC. I'm glad I have a 1 inch BMC from a limited to slap in. I'll find that adjustment tool part number. I have to also find the adapter that the mitsubishi dealerships use for balancing. Sam's Club is having a hell of a time properly balancing my tires. The tool P/N & pics are under the "Brake master cylinders" thread in General. Yea, if you have the dual piston calipers, you should have the 1" BMC and it WILL make a difference. Definitely make sure the pushrod is set correctly. That will change pedal travel and feel if the clearance is too high or cause brake lockup if its too low. Edward
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Post by ES_97Sport on Dec 8, 2015 13:46:11 GMT -5
Back to the joys of CAD. Sigh. Laptop crashed a couple years ago and ate several of the CAD diagrams for the bracketry. I have a PDF of the drawings but now I have to reenter everything so I can send them off to the laser cutting place. One down, ....
BD, did you decide what you're going to do about a t-case?
Edward
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Post by bdmontero on Dec 8, 2015 15:07:17 GMT -5
Not yet. My wife just informed me of Christmas lists........uggghhhhh
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