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Post by ES_97Sport on Jan 12, 2016 19:48:54 GMT -5
I done goofed and forgot I have another engine laying at my dads house, the guy that sold it to me for $50 said there was something wrong inside the crankcase something like scorched rod bearings or something like that but worth looking at whether or not the crankshaft itself is good. Either way I need to remove the engine to do anything properly so looks like I need to be towed a couple of hours away to my dads house. I'm not sure what a 'scorched' rod bearing is, but if the rod journal on the crank is damaged, you're better off getting a crank somewhere else. 3.0L cranks are not that hard to come by. Otherwise, you'll have to have the crank turned, and get over-sized bearings for that rod. The threads in the pic of the snout are in pretty bad shape. I will lay you odds, if you put another new crank bolt in there and try to torque it down, you'll thrash the new bolt just like the last one. There's not really any amount of duct tape you can throw at that to make it work at any level of reliability. Edward
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Post by Naeos_Valkarian on Jan 12, 2016 20:48:05 GMT -5
I done goofed and forgot I have another engine laying at my dads house, the guy that sold it to me for $50 said there was something wrong inside the crankcase something like scorched rod bearings or something like that but worth looking at whether or not the crankshaft itself is good. Either way I need to remove the engine to do anything properly so looks like I need to be towed a couple of hours away to my dads house. I'm not sure what a 'scorched' rod bearing is, but if the rod journal on the crank is damaged, you're better off getting a crank somewhere else. 3.0L cranks are not that hard to come by. Otherwise, you'll have to have the crank turned, and get over-sized bearings for that rod. The threads in the pic of the snout are in pretty bad shape. I will lay you odds, if you put another new crank bolt in there and try to torque it down, you'll thrash the new bolt just like the last one. There's not really any amount of duct tape you can throw at that to make it work at any level of reliability. Edward I will look around and see where I can get a 3.0L crankshaft, but as I said earlier I just don't have then engine hoist or an engine mount to work with. My dad said it would be a few weeks to a month before he could find the time to help me so I'm definitely out of luck there. I'm going to see about selling a few things to get a bit more cash and see if I can get a shop to do it.
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Post by pinstryper on Jan 12, 2016 21:29:24 GMT -5
Your going to need a crank kit, ie. Reman crank, (machined undersize) and bearing kit (with oversize bearings) might as well get new rings, and hone the cylinders. 4-600$ Or get a short block already assembled 1000-1500$ Or get a junkyard engine 250-700 depending on milage and or warranty. All above plus labor. In Houston 3000k tow in drive out 2 yr. 30k warranty. Not at a mitsu store by the way. That would be 4-5k and they will just use a LKQ reman.
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Post by jkdv8 on Jan 12, 2016 21:33:33 GMT -5
Could try this. www.silver-seal.com/category/shop.time-sert.inch_kits/ a little expensive but of the utmost quality and doesn't require removing the engine or crank. What the muscle car guys use so.... I'm sure the repair can handle anything these engines are capable of putting out. As long as you drill straight (might need to remove radiator) and I mean straight then stop when you hit solid metal you're golden. Easier said than done but what do you have to lose the crank would need to replace or retapped anyways. Edit Just for the record, I finally got the page with the metric sets. I tried from that link above but it never brought anything up. I think the page is under construction or something. www.timesert.com/html/mtrcsert.html
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Post by bdmontero on Jan 12, 2016 22:18:28 GMT -5
It's not just the radiator. You also have the condenser and fan and radiator support.
Sent from my SM-N900V using proboards
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Post by Naeos_Valkarian on Jan 12, 2016 23:28:21 GMT -5
Your going to need a crank kit, ie. Reman crank, (machined undersize) and bearing kit (with oversize bearings) might as well get new rings, and hone the cylinders. 4-600$ Or get a short block already assembled 1000-1500$ Or get a junkyard engine 250-700 depending on milage and or warranty. All above plus labor. In Houston 3000k tow in drive out 2 yr. 30k warranty. Not at a mitsu store by the way. That would be 4-5k and they will just use a LKQ reman. At that price might as well leave the monty in the back yard and take a bus to Florida.
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Post by pinstryper on Jan 13, 2016 0:03:15 GMT -5
We now return to... Are crankshafts hardened? Yes.flanges and journals particularly. Are engine blocks hardened? No. Are heads hardened? No. Drilling hardened steel requires special tools which are not inexpensive and also hardened beyond what their drilling. Hardened = brittle Drilling such usually means. 3-400 or less RPM. With constant lubrication flow and I don't mean a shot of wd40.
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Post by Naeos_Valkarian on Jan 13, 2016 0:46:26 GMT -5
We now return to... Are crankshafts hardened? Yes.flanges and journals particularly. Are engine blocks hardened? No. Are heads hardened? No. Drilling hardened steel requires special tools which are not inexpensive and also hardened beyond what their drilling. Hardened = brittle Drilling such usually means. 3-400 or less RPM. With constant lubrication flow and I don't mean a shot of wd40. I read this in the guys voice from how it's made.
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jocks
Junior Member
Posts: 28
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Post by jocks on Jan 13, 2016 3:50:44 GMT -5
Oil is used so the bolt doesn't bind before your reach your torque spec. 40mm + washer and HB (-10mm max) should mean everything should mate up. Try fitting it with just the washer, see how far the bolt threads in. No tools, by hand. The washer should snug up against the crank. If it doesn't screw in by hand all the way the threads on your crank are stuffed, try running a tap through it. The size you need is M14x1.50. Get a good quality one and take your time, if the tap breaks off in your crank its off to the machine shop. No way around it. If it doesn't torque up from here, go down to your local bolt shop and get the next size up (high tensile bolt; buy the tap while your there) and use a cobalt drill bit. After you run the M14x1.50 tap through it, dry fit it with your old bolt and washer. You want to try to reach for the low hanging fruit before anything. Trust me mate, a long time ago i was just as anxious to play with cars and not knowing anything about anything . These are the kind of experiences that will teach you quick You can buy compressed air in cans if you don't have a compressor. Brake cleaner is brake cleaner and cutting fluid for any tapping or drilling you'll be doing.
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Post by ES_97Sport on Jan 13, 2016 14:12:46 GMT -5
Could try this. www.silver-seal.com/category/shop.time-sert.inch_kits/ a little expensive but of the utmost quality and doesn't require removing the engine or crank. What the muscle car guys use so.... I'm sure the repair can handle anything these engines are capable of putting out. As long as you drill straight (might need to remove radiator) and I mean straight then stop when you hit solid metal you're golden. Easier said than done but what do you have to lose the crank would need to replace or retapped anyways. I'm going to try this one more time ... The issue isn't whether you can repair it, its HOW you repair it. Thread repair kits are not rocket surgery. Getting it drilled straight IS. You CAN NOT DO THIS FREE HAND! If the snout is not drilled so that the bolt head is square, when its tightened down it puts stress against the head of the bolt and it will - LITERALLY - just pop off. And, there's no telling how long that'll take to happen. If its a crap sub-grade Chinese bolt, it could happen when he tries to torque it down or it could happen a week from now. Or a month. Or a year. When it does happen, in pretty short order that HB is going to come off the engine. He doesn't have the tools to do this right. If this were an alternator bolt it'd be one thing, but a HB bolt with 150+ lbs torque spec. This has to be done correctly or it wont work at all and in this case its actually dangerous to not do it the correct way. I understand that ninestar is in an awkward position, but there are some things you can not do halfa$$. Been there, it sucks but that's the way it is. I'm not trying to be rude or beat on anyone and I know you all are trying to help, but this is NOT a time for duct tape and twisties. This has absolutely nothing to do with the output of the engine. Cobalt bit. Edward
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Post by bdmontero on Jan 13, 2016 17:19:25 GMT -5
We tried Ed we tried. Sent from my SM-N900V using proboards
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Post by Naeos_Valkarian on Jan 13, 2016 17:26:13 GMT -5
We tried Ed we tried. Sent from my SM-N900V using proboards I just had my Monty towed to a mechanics shop to have the threads tapped and heli-coiled properly, should know sometime tomorrow how much it's gonna cost. I appreciate every ones help and advice, you guys are awesome.
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Post by jkdv8 on Jan 13, 2016 19:12:18 GMT -5
ninestar, I hope you get it going soon man.
Lol, you guys were entertaining the idea of a helicoil so thought I would throw it out there. These a lot more reliable. I personally wouldn't put a helicoil in a lawnmower engine but that's just me.
I disagree with the "free hand" deal cause it's been done before. I mean he doesn't seem to be incompetent. Even if it wasn't drilled straight you wouldn't be able to install it properly so then you make the executive decision to remove and replace the crank or set fire to it. I did mention you have to keep it straight but on the plus side the hole is already there so you're basically just cutting out the old threads then cutting new ones. You would run into quite a bit more resistance if you were to get off course. Not saying it can't happen but thats why you take the whole day if necessary and/or have a friend or relative help. I would try it before I would think about pulling the motor to replace the crank especially on a car that's almost 20 years old with a zillion miles. At some point you have to stop and think is this really logical. He already stated he didn't have much money so putting even more money, in a car he hasn't even been able to drive yet, with which he could use to buy another one just seems a bit much.
When done properly they have been reliably used on cars, as well as others. Like the ls motor for example where the bolt is torqued to 230+ lb/ft torque, has a ton more torque and hp, as well as spinning the usual plus a water pump and a supercharger. Just saying.
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Post by Naeos_Valkarian on Jan 13, 2016 19:44:12 GMT -5
ninestar, I hope you get it going soon man. Lol, you guys were entertaining the idea of a helicoil so thought I would throw it out there. These a lot more reliable. I personally wouldn't put a helicoil in a lawnmower engine but that's just me. I disagree with the "free hand" deal cause it's been done before. I mean he doesn't seem to be incompetent. Even if it wasn't drilled straight you wouldn't be able to install it properly so then you make the executive decision to remove and replace the crank or set fire to it. I did mention you have to keep it straight but on the plus side the hole is already there so you're basically just cutting out the old threads then cutting new ones. You would run into quite a bit more resistance if you were to get off course. Not saying it can't happen but thats why you take the whole day if necessary and/or have a friend or relative help. I would try it before I would think about pulling the motor to replace the crank especially on a car that's almost 20 years old with a zillion miles. At some point you have to stop and think is this really logical. He already stated he didn't have much money so putting even more money, in a car he hasn't even been able to drive yet, with which he could use to buy another one just seems a bit much. When done properly they have been reliably used on cars, as well as others. Like the ls motor for example where the bolt is torqued to 230+ lb/ft torque, has a ton more torque and hp, as well as spinning the usual plus a water pump and a supercharger. Just saying. I've driven the Monty about 2,000 miles since I got it running back in September. I do plan on replacing the crank eventually but for now a fresh tap and heli-coil will get me back on the road which is where I need to be. Also as far as I'm aware you don't need to torque the HB bolt to 230Ft-Lbs, everywhere I've looked say 134~136.
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Post by jkdv8 on Jan 14, 2016 15:11:10 GMT -5
I've driven the Monty about 2,000 miles since I got it running back in September. Oh, ok that's a plus. I must've missed that. I do plan on replacing the crank eventually but for now a fresh tap and heli-coil will get me back on the road which is where I need to be. Also as far as I'm aware you don't need to torque the HB bolt to 230Ft-Lbs, everywhere I've looked say 134~136. Yea that torque spec was for an LS engine. I was just pointing out, when properly installed, those Time Sert inserts are more than capable of lasting the life of the engine.
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